Test/Tren/Stan

[MrBig Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close MrBig]

question of the day- how long do you normally wait after your last day of PCT to start your next cycle/whats recommended/whats the soonest you should even consider?

I think that this is defferant for everyone, it depends on what your doing, how your doing it. For me I go back to my HRT for about 1 month then start another cycle. The thing is if you go on another cycle to soon then your going to require more gear more gear, money and pins , if you stay off longer you wont need more gear. With me I can go off for the month then start my next cycle, but I need to do between 700-1000mg's ew and I do well with that amount of gear, so far. I've been able to hit each goal that I've set for myself.

[CharlieBron Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close CharlieBron]

Thanks for the feedback Mr Big i really appreciate it. Ill wait about a month or maybe a little more before I start my next cycle. Im still just a month into this one, and Im loving it. Sides are minimal, although i had that freakout last week with the acne. It has gone down a lot since the flare up. I notice that if I get stressed at work, ill start seeing more of a breakout. I wish I had found this place years earlier, this place and the people involved have been great. The support and advice is second to none. Ive been looking around the forum and Ive seen a lot of good things about andromix. I was thinking about using that in my next cycle. Nothing is set in stone, but here's what I was thinking, be brutal and let me know what you think/what you would change/etc.

Weeks 1-8 GP Andromix 1CC ED
Weeks 6-8 GP Stan 40mg ED
Weeks 1-10 12.5 mg GP Exemestane per day

Weeks 11-13 GP Clomid 100mg for week 11, then 50mg for week 12 + 13

[MrBig Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close MrBig]

That looks good, but depending on how lean you are now you might want to go 10 weeks. Also the GP Exemestane, I don't think you'll need that ed, unless your prone to getting sides at low doses. I used that same cut cycle back in July-Sept but with gen-shi and the same amounts also and it worked great for me. I was at 16% b-fat and got down to 7% in about 7 weeks time.

Oh and I did us any anti-estrogen blockers at all throgh the whole cycle. No wait I did the last week of the cycle just to get the water out between the skin and muscle.

[CharlieBron Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close CharlieBron]

I still havent bought the skin calipers but if i had to give myself an honest assessment i would say im closer to 10% bf, but no lower. I am holding a lot of water, but im pretty happy with the progress so far. Ive gone from around 185 to 201 today. Not bad for 4 weeks. I fully understand that i didnt gain 16lbs of muscle, and i hope others reading this understand that a lot of that is water weight, but ive seen massive improvements on size and definition of the muscle. The length of the next cycle is something i can play by ear. If im not where i want to be at 8 weeks, ill go another two weeks. Also right now, im doing 12.5 exemestane ed right now, but i am running pretty high doses. I could start off with e3d or eod and adjust as needed for the next one, unless you really think i wont need to run any at all until the last week if i wanted. As long as i stay on the safe side, i like experimenting. It helps me understand the gear and effects a lot better. I think my diet has been the key on this one. Everyone, including myself, preaches diet, but rarely do they/I follow through. Ive been going strong for 5 weeks now, not cheating and not missing meals, catching shit from everyone for carrying my food everywhere, but i dont think i would have the same results otherwise. So for all those that might be following this thread, DIET is the most important tool in your bag. Again I wish I had this site earlier, ive made so many mistakes early on that this site would have been very helpful. Im still no where near being an expert on this stuff, so this knowledge gained is amazing.

[MrBig Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close MrBig]

When it come to an anti-estrogen I kind of take it when I feel something is off, weather that be water retention, nipples getting sore or something like that. Like I said in another post, I'm doing 940mg's ew and not taking anything at this time. Also you don't have to take anything at the end the cycle other than your PCT, the only reason I did was to try and get some water off me. Remember everyone is different just be careful not to eliminate to much estro, you do need some to build muscle and have a sex drive. If you eliminate it completely you will not build or have a sex drive.

[CharlieBron Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close CharlieBron]

thanks big, I think starting some time next week, i might back off my anti-e just a little and go from ed to eod and see how that works out. I know this is a typical answer, but my sex drive is through the roof, and ive been making great gains. Ill just back it off to see if anything changes and keep my eyes on and emerging sides....also I put another order in with naps. Its like christmas all over again. I went with andromix. I got enough to last me 10 weeks and then some. Ill save the extra for some other time. Cant pass up a good deal. I got some winnie for the end of the cycle. Clomid for the PCT, and yes i bought some exemestane just to have it on hand. Im going to see how backing off a bit on my anti -e has an effect on me and ill adjust for the next one. Now, for those following the threads, youre probably wondering why the fuck i just ordered all this gear when i still have 8+ weeks on this one. Really simple, im tired of hearing people complaining about not getting there gear in time. Lets face it, were not ordering flowers, we expect delays. I dont really expect starting my next cycle for atleast 3 1/2 to 4 months. That should give me enough time. Planning ahead is everything. Well, thats it for now.

[Nature101 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Nature101]

The ordering times can take a while but it is worth it. Expect 4+ weeks and when you get it in 2 you will be happy looking fwd to hearing how cycle goes.

[CharlieBron Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close CharlieBron]

alright, real quick post. Just did another set of pins with no issues and no signs of the dreaded tren cough, lol. The little acne scare i had last week is about 90% gone. Ill be honest, i think it had to do a lot with being stressed the fuck out for 2 days. Cause they looked more like hives than anything else. But as of right now, i feel great. Joints feel a little dry, but nothing really to worry about. My gains are solid, both in strength and size. Diets going good, i did take a bite out of my daughters burger the other day, but other than that i havent cheated, hahaha. I could definitly notice the drop in body fat. Its very consistent, and honestly that was my main goal. I would love to get stronger and grow, but the main thing i wanted was to be able to walk around 8%, and with two months left. I dont see me failing. Nature101, ill try to be as vague as possible so i dont break any rules, but ill put it this way. With my last order, if 4 weeks is expected and two weeks should be happy, lets just say i was extremely happy. I have no doubts in naps ability to make good. So thats it for now, hope this thread helps some people.

[CharlieBron Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close CharlieBron]

oh one more thing i forgot to mention. I got some clen with my last order, and i havent used it yet. I was thinking about adding it in soon. Just curious on everyone elses experience, i.e. how much/ how often/ what results were seen/ what sides were seen.

[CharlieBron Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close CharlieBron]

did another set of pins today with no issues. Results are steady and impressive. Im gonna back off a little on the anti-e starting monday or tuesday and see how that works out with any additional gains or sides. Ill keep everyone posted. Other than that, still highly impressed with this stack and i havent even gotten into the winnie. That starts in a couple weeks i think, i forget what week im on. Im also thinking about using the clen sometime this next month. i would appreciate any insight on the clen, others experiences with it, what they did, how they liked it, etc....last but not least. My order with naps went through now im just waiting on my gear. I have no doubt theyll deliver. take care and ill talk to everyone later.

[MrBig Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close MrBig]

Hey CB,
If your going to to use the Clen and this is your first time using it, here are a few sides you might notice. You may get the shakes, hands will be shaky (this may subside as you continue use), a rise in body temp, which may make you sweat more. These are the only ones that I have had when I take clen.
You can use the Clen two differentt ways, I'm not going into detail, someone else may want to, but this is the just of it. I use Clen the whole time I'm doing my cut cycle with no days off, another way is to go two weeks on and then two weeks off. The reason for the two weeks on and off is if you take Clen the whole time, your receptore will get cloggedd and the clen is no longerr effective, but I use benadryl to keep my receptors from clogging up, therefor I can stay on the whole time, this works great for me. Others may disagree, but I like staying on the whole cycle.

[CharlieBron Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close CharlieBron]

thanks big, I have heard about using benadryl to keep your receptors from unclogging. Im gonna read up a little more on clen, so i have a better understanding of when/how/how often/etc to use it. Ill probably try the 2weeks on / 2 weeks off and see how that works, and go full on the second time.

[CharlieBron Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close CharlieBron]

so im half way through my 12 week cycle. And i could be happier. I went from 185lbs to 201lbs right now. BF was at around 12% to about 9% right now. I started the Winny today so im looking forward to how thats gonna work out for me. Things ive noticed lately is the heartburn Ive been getting. Ive never really had an issue with it before and i dont know if its from anything ive been taking but it was bad for about the last two days and it feels a lot better today. After a couple sessions of tanning the acne on my back has almost gone all away. I should mention ive also begun taking clen. I started the first two days with 40, and im on my second day of 60, i think ill work my way up to 120 and see how i like it. Ive noticed a tiny bit of the shakes and some elevated body temp but i always feel like im hot so i cant say if thats from the clen or not. I plan on using the clen 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off for this cycle. In the future i might try running it everyday but im not really sure on how to do that properly, so i would appreciate any advice from other people. I will have to say at this point, that im in love with this cycle.

[MrBig Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close MrBig]

Thats awesome brother, your doin really good.

As for the Clen in your next cycle, You said you want to stay on it through the whole cycle, you would just work up to the 120mcgs as you did now and then work back down at the end of the cycle. Now to keep your receptors clean you can use Ketotifen which our sponsor carries or you can try the Benadryl which is way cheaper then the Ketotifen. If you decide to use the Ketotifen the Doses of two to ten milligrams of ketotifen have been used by users of clenbuterol, but most would be well served to start at lower doses. It is unlikely that many will need doses higher then 5 milligrams per day. I use 2mgs ed myself and the wife uses the same with great results. Taking ketotifen for seven days every two to three weeks should be enough, before bed ed starting at the end of the second week, if you go with the Benadryl it's around 50-100mgs/night before bed (every 3rd week or so, for that week) I do 75mgs before bed and the wife does 50mgs.

My next post goes into more detail about Ketotifen and Benadryl.

[MrBig Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close MrBig]

Due to the fact that clenbuterol is a beta-2 agonist/antagonist the downregulation of the cardiac, pulmonary and central nervous system beta-adrenergic receptors is an issue that users must combat when using this compound (3). A proven method to help alleviate this effect and ensure that the clenbuterol remains effective throughout its use is via the administration of ketotifen (7). Ketotifen is a prescription anti-histimines that acts to reduce beta-2 receptor activity. By reducing this activity, the receptor function is restored to nearly its original capability and the potency of the clenbuterol remains in effect. Doses of two to ten milligrams of ketotifen have been used by users of clenbuterol, but most would be well served to start at lower doses. It is unlikely that many will need doses higher then 5 milligrams per day. Taking ketotifen for seven days every two to three weeks should be enough to maintain well functioning beta-2 receptors and ensure that the clenbuterol maintains its effectiveness.

An alternative to ketotifen may be diphenhydramine, commonly referred to as Benedryl. Benadryl is a cationic ampiphylic drug, with this fact being significant because cationic ampiphylic drugs have the ability to inhibit phospholipase A2 and therefore upgrade beta-2 receptors (8). The inhibition of the enzyme phospholipase A2 is key due to it being responsible for methylated phospholipids. It is thought that by reducing and/or ending this action this allows the phospholipid membrane to remain relatively intact and the beta-adrenoreceptors will be able to remain functioning at their full capacity, or near to it, for much longer. For most, an effective dose would be 50-100mgs per day for seven days every three weeks while running clenbuterol. Users would be well served to take this dosage just prior to going to sleep as it will likely cause drowsiness.

Having said this, there is much more anecdotal feedback in regards to the effectiveness of ketotifen in relation to clenbuterol then there is Benedryl simply because ketotifen has been used much longer by strength athletes and bodybuilders for this purpose. As well, there is seemingly more direct research that indicates that ketotifen is effective while only a few studies suggest the same of Benedryl. That is not to say that Benedryl is ineffective, just that there is less “real world” feedback as to its use with clenbuterol.

This prevention of the downregulation of the beta-2 receptors is important since it appears that clenbuterol gains effectiveness and produces its best results if it is run for six weeks or longer. This is true of fat loss and muscle mass gain it appears. For this reason most users will want to run clenbuterol for at least six weeks and ensure that they use some protection against receptor downregulation so that the clenbuterol remains effective throughout.
Another option, if you are worried about receptor downgrade, is taking Benadryl, at around 50-100mgs/night before bed (every 3rd week or so, for that week). Benadryl is sold as an anti-histimine in the United States, and/or a sleep aid elsewhere in the world. However, Beta receptors are embedded in the cell's outer phospholipid membrane. The stability of the membrane has a lot to do with the proper function of the receptors. Methylation of the phospholipids is stimulated by the binding of beta agonists to their receptors. Methylated phospholipids are foreign to the body, and when the body recognizes tham as foreign, it breaks them down with phospholipase A2. This changes the structure of the outer membrane which results in desensitizaton of the beta receptors. On the other hand, agents that inhibit phospholipase A2 slow desensitization.

Cationic ampiphylic drugs are known for their ability to inhibit phospholipase A2. Benadryl (diphenhydramine) is a cationic ampiphylic drug.

Ergo, Benadryl slows desensitization of Beta receptors (i.e. Upgrades them) by inhibiting phospholipase A2, which is the enzyme that breaks down methylated phospholipids, and this action in turn keeps the phospholipid membrane stable, and thus keeps the receptors functioning properly. (7). This will allow you to use clen for much longer and it'll still have the same effects. Also, since Benadryl is an anti-histamine, and histamines have a direct effect on beta-adrenoreceptors (not just Beta-2’s but all of them), using an anti-histamine will have a direct effect on reducing beta-receptor stimulation (16), and thus upregulating your beta-receptors.