Nolvadex

[EthanWS6 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close EthanWS6]

I'm wanting to use Nolvadex on cycle next run instead of an AI but I'm not sure what doses to run. I'm going to (probably) be running 500mg/wk test cyp 1-16, anadrol 50mg/ed 1-4, deca 500mg/wk ?-?(suggestions on length?). I'm not really sure when to start the Nolvadex, or what dose to run. Also, would it be best to just stretch it out for a post too, or get something else? Thanks guys!

[CFINCH007 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close CFINCH007]

wouldnt run same about of deca and test....either bump up test or decrease deca...otherwise you might be a victim of deca dick....lol

I'm wanting to use Nolvadex on cycle next run instead of an AI but I'm not sure what doses to run. I'm going to (probably) be running 500mg/wk test cyp 1-16, anadrol 50mg/ed 1-4, deca 500mg/wk ?-?(suggestions on length?). I'm not really sure when to start the Nolvadex, or what dose to run. Also, would it be best to just stretch it out for a post too, or get something else? Thanks guys!

[xela1988 Banned Find all posts View Profile Close xela1988]

Nolva is for PCT unless u know something new?? The only use for it on cycle is if signs of gyno begin to show. If so start nolvadex at 40mg immediately for 2-3 days and lower to 20mg ED until completion of cycle. Youre also going to need caber (dostinex) @ .25mg 2x a week for the deca to combat progesterone sides. If youre still getting good gains from 500mg test/week, stick to that n drop the deca to maybe 3-400mg/week. Maybe start on the higher end and see what happens. If u get deca dick drop it 50-100mg. U should be alright though. Deca dick isnt as common as it seems. Its just a possible side that us males put our ego in front of because of what it jeopardizes. Just my opinion though bud

[EthanWS6 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close EthanWS6]

I was debating on upping the test to 750mg/wk but I'm not sure if I need to yet especially since I am throwing in another compound. From what I understand on all the shit I read about nolvadex, it was very good for on cycle help with preventing gyno which seems to be the only negative side I get from the estrogen buildup. I was thinking about taking novla and just doing like .5mg/E3D of adex if needed.

[xela1988 Banned Find all posts View Profile Close xela1988]

first, like i said earlier, if you're still getting good quality gains from 500mg test/week, theres no need to up the dose. i always thought more gear = bigger gains. not the case. your body will eventually get used to you using 500mg/week and then it will be time to bump it up to 750mg/week. but being on the younger and beginners side of juicing (not saying you're a newb) you shouldn't reach that point for a few more cycles. we have to remember this is a marathon, not a sprint. i know i have a hard time thinking about it that way but thats how it has to be.

on a second note, as far as the nolva goes, you obviously know your estro will increase with the test. you want to keep estro in the normal range. nolva does not control your estrogen. it's a serm, which blocks the estrogen receptor site but does not change the amount of estrogen in your system which to me is pushing the limit on dropping estro too low as a "running out" effect. using just an AI may be a better choice. an AI stops the conversion of test into estrogen which is aromatization but doesnt block estrogen receptors and allows estro to flow freely through out the body. if estrogen drops too low you could experience joint pain or ed problems or both. on the other hand, if you wanted to try nolva on cycle, go with a low dose like 10mg/day and if you notice any gyno symptoms, bump it up to 40mg immediately until they go away then taper back down to about 20mg/day. im just a little iffy on blocking estrogen receptors for that long a cycle. seems like the estro would drop too low and deff cause some joint pain which lasts a few weeks. thats why people use nolva for only 4 weeks as a pct. i hope that all makes since. its a very fine line but it is deffinately a line..

you ever consider letro?

[CFINCH007 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close CFINCH007]

I wouldn't bump test, I would drop deca to 300 a week

I was debating on upping the test to 750mg/wk but I'm not sure if I need to yet especially since I am throwing in another compound. From what I understand on all the shit I read about nolvadex, it was very good for on cycle help with preventing gyno which seems to be the only negative side I get from the estrogen buildup. I was thinking about taking novla and just doing like .5mg/E3D of adex if needed.

[shafranko Member Find all posts View Profile Close shafranko]

Seems like you have been using adex in your past cycles. Why the change to Nolva? I agree with xela save the Nolva for post. Personally i use letro and i am very prone to gyno. Havent had any issues with letro past three cycles.

[bill2011 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close bill2011]

i stop using adex an way to Proviron it a good blocker an help with hard look. Nolva is a good Blocker to. I read alot on both an some -people use both for complete hard look. My 12week cycle over no Side effect. I was using TestC 1mg no gain for 8week than i up it to 1.5mg nice gain at 10week way back down to 1mg. working on my Second cycle. I thinking about going to test E 1mg an deca .5mg

[EthanWS6 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close EthanWS6]

Good info, thanks guys. The past two cycles that I have used adex, my gains stopped within a week of starting the adex and I started getting bad joint pain. This cycle, weeks 5-10 showed absolutely no weight gain and really not much size difference at all, and the only thing that changed was the fact that I added in adex. Maybe I'm just used to 500mg/wk test all ready? Idk lol but I do know that when the adex started, things went downhill

[sam1976 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close sam1976]

you DONT want to run NOLVADEX with DECA.the way i understand it, 19-nors make the progesterone receptors sensitive, making your chance of gyno go up. heres some science i've seen posted around the net on the topic. stick with an AI.

J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 2005 May;95(1-5):83-9.

Aromatase inhibitors: cellular and molecular effects.

Miller WR, Anderson TJ, White S, Larionov A, Murray J, Evans D, Krause A, Dixon JM.

Breast Unit, Western General Hospital, Edinburgh, Scotland, UK.

Marked cellular and molecular changes may occur in breast cancers following treatment of postmenopausal breast cancer patients with aromatase inhibitors. Neoadjuvant protocols, in which treatment is given with the primary tumour still within the breast, are particularly illuminating. In Edinburgh, we have shown that 3 months treatment with either anastrozole, exemestane or letrozole produces pathological responses in the majority of oestrogen receptor (ER)-rich tumours (39/59) as manifested by reduced cellularity/increased fibrosis. Changes in histological grading may also take place, most notably a reduction in mitotic figures. This probably reflects an influence on proliferation as most tumours (82%) show a marked decrease in the proliferation marker, Ki67. These effects are generally more dramatic than seen with tamoxifen given in the same setting. Differences between aromatase inhibitors and tamoxifen are also apparent in changes in steroid hormone expression. Thus, immuno-staining for progesterone receptor (PgR) is reduced in almost all cases by aromatase inhibitors, becoming undetectable in many. This contrasts with effects of tamoxifen in which the most common change on PgR is to increase expression. Changes in proliferation occur rapidly following the onset of exposure to aromatase inhibitors. Thus, neoadjuvant studies with letrozole in which tumour was sampled before and after 14 days and 3 months treatment show that decreased expression of Ki67 occur at 14 days and, in many cases, the effect is greater at 14 days than 3 months. These early changes precede evidence of clinical response but do not predict for it. However, this study design has allowed RNA analysis of sequential biopsies taken during the neoadjuvant therapy. Based on clustering techniques, it has been possible to subdivide tumours into groups showing distinct patterns of molecular changes. These changes in tumour gene expression may allow definition of tumour cohorts with differing sensitivity to aromatase inhibitors and permit early

[sam1976 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close sam1976]

first, like i said earlier, if you're still getting good quality gains from 500mg test/week, theres no need to up the dose. i always thought more gear = bigger gains. not the case. your body will eventually get used to you using 500mg/week and then it will be time to bump it up to 750mg/week. but being on the younger and beginners side of juicing (not saying you're a newb) you shouldn't reach that point for a few more cycles. we have to remember this is a marathon, not a sprint. i know i have a hard time thinking about it that way but thats how it has to be.

on a second note, as far as the nolva goes, you obviously know your estro will increase with the test. you want to keep estro in the normal range. nolva does not control your estrogen. it's a serm, which blocks the estrogen receptor site but does not change the amount of estrogen in your system

2 good points to consider.

[xela1988 Banned Find all posts View Profile Close xela1988]

you DONT want to run NOLVADEX with DECA.the way i understand it, 19-nors make the progesterone receptors sensitive, making your chance of gyno go up. heres some science i've seen posted around the net on the topic. stick with an AI.

J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 2005 May;95(1-5):83-9.

Aromatase inhibitors: cellular and molecular effects.

Miller WR, Anderson TJ, White S, Larionov A, Murray J, Evans D, Krause A, Dixon JM.

Breast Unit, Western General Hospital, Edinburgh, Scotland, UK.

Marked cellular and molecular changes may occur in breast cancers following treatment of postmenopausal breast cancer patients with aromatase inhibitors. Neoadjuvant protocols, in which treatment is given with the primary tumour still within the breast, are particularly illuminating. In Edinburgh, we have shown that 3 months treatment with either anastrozole, exemestane or letrozole produces pathological responses in the majority of oestrogen receptor (ER)-rich tumours (39/59) as manifested by reduced cellularity/increased fibrosis. Changes in histological grading may also take place, most notably a reduction in mitotic figures. This probably reflects an influence on proliferation as most tumours (82%) show a marked decrease in the proliferation marker, Ki67. These effects are generally more dramatic than seen with tamoxifen given in the same setting. Differences between aromatase inhibitors and tamoxifen are also apparent in changes in steroid hormone expression. Thus, immuno-staining for progesterone receptor (PgR) is reduced in almost all cases by aromatase inhibitors, becoming undetectable in many. This contrasts with effects of tamoxifen in which the most common change on PgR is to increase expression. Changes in proliferation occur rapidly following the onset of exposure to aromatase inhibitors. Thus, neoadjuvant studies with letrozole in which tumour was sampled before and after 14 days and 3 months treatment show that decreased expression of Ki67 occur at 14 days and, in many cases, the effect is greater at 14 days than 3 months. These early changes precede evidence of clinical response but do not predict for it. However, this study design has allowed RNA analysis of sequential biopsies taken during the neoadjuvant therapy. Based on clustering techniques, it has been possible to subdivide tumours into groups showing distinct patterns of molecular changes. These changes in tumour gene expression may allow definition of tumour cohorts with differing sensitivity to aromatase inhibitors and permit early

so that would make nolva for PCT out of the question with any deca cycle correct?

[bill2011 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close bill2011]

Is deca worth using with Test

[sam1976 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close sam1976]

so that would make nolva for PCT out of the question with any deca cycle correct?

i think...key word being think, cuz i havent done it personally, that in PCT, the deca would have cleared. i also THINK that clomid doesnt have the same effect as nolva in this respect. dont take my word on that though. i'd wanna look into it further

[sam1976 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close sam1976]

Is deca worth using with Test

i think thats a relative question. i have been getting results closer to what i desire using EQ in the last year, but in general, for me, in regards to bulking and growing new tissue, my answer would be YES!