Cutting cycle - opinion

[xamo Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close xamo]

Please read the whole thing as I have many different questions

So hey guys, this will be my only post about this as I don't wanna repost and ask for the same things over and over.

As you all know I am currently on my bulking cycle which is pretty basic... 500 test E per week.. needless to say as that is my first cycle I've been a little "overwhelmed" by the changes. As I previously said in a different topic, I am andomorph and gain fat easily. While on cycle I definitely can feel that ... I've gained some amazing strength so far but also some fat. Anyway... That is why my second cycle will be cutting and here's what I'm planning on and need your opinion and anyways, I'm pretty sure I'm gonna stick to cutting cycles and lower my bodyfat as much as I can THEN go on with a bulking cycle.

Test Prop 200MG EOD 12 WEEKS
Tren A 100MG EOD 12 WEEKS (I was told to use Eq but I thought I'd try Tren anyways lol)
Mast 100MG EOD 12 WEEKS
WINNI 50MG ED 12 WEEKS
PROV 40MG ED 12 WEEKS

As far as PCT goes well I'm actually not sure, I was thinking Nolva as well as some Nat test supplements but would that be ok even with a tren cycle?

So here it is... I also will be using an ECA stack 2 weeks on and off, while on my 2 weeks off of it I'll be using OxyElite Pro.

I am thinking many of you will tell me that there might be too many compounds for a second cycle, that's why I'm gonna ask you if that's so what would you change to it? I've already got all the stuff, I don't need to use it all in one cycle I can keep it for later or order different things so I don't mind putting aside a few things.. however I'd definitely love to hear what you guys think.

Also, what can I truly expect from a cycle like this, counting on this + ECA? How's my endurance and strength gonna be? I really have no idea what to expect from a cut cycle..

Let's not talk about diet as I've already got it checked.

As far as the pinning goes. I only have 2ccs syringes. Keeping that in mind, how'd you go about it as most of the stuff is EOD and if I keep it as it is it's 4cc EOD. What would you pin etc as it needs two injections EOD?

Also, how long after my first cycle's PCT must I wait prior to starting a new cycle? 4 weeks?

Thanks guys and merry christmas!

[Guest Close Guest]

seems like wayyyy too many things for only a 2nd cycle man.. not to discourage u... this is where u would do like a test + deca or eq just adding one more compound so if something goes wrong u know which it was. also tren is pretty advanced so that is something u shuold wait on imo.. but if u want u could run a tren and like test prop cycle.. and maybe something like winnie orr var

[xamo Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close xamo]

Hey, nah I'm here to learn anyway, so that doesn't discourage me at all. I'm not a fan of deca, I mean I've never tried but from what I could read I would rather stay away from it. But yeah I've been told Tren wasn't a good second cycle option.. that compound attracts me for some reason though.

As for the var, well it sure looks like an awesome addition instead of winny, but it also is much more expensive, is it worth the cost?

[~BG~ Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ~BG~]

Ever do 12 weeks of eod injects....it blows at week 6. I have a few questions for you.......

1- If your diets in check why are you gaining fat?
2-Are you taking a serm or ai? Could it be water retention from the test thats making you think your gaining fat?

As far as your cycle I agree its to much. I would just run some prop with the eca stack, kill cardio and carb cycle. You want to be cut, well it takes dedication to your diet and cardio.....not taking a lot of gear. If you can fat easy like you said you need to get cut down naturally, this way you will be able to maintain it more easily. So many guys use tons of chemicals to reduce bf but what happens when they come off? They gain it right back. Seems you a little mixed up when it comes to cycling...bulk, cut, bulk. The best way to look good and build lbm is to get leaned out naturally, then use the gear to build off of that. True bulking builds a lot of fat, then you want to cut and lose muscle mass. You can carb cycle, stay lean while building muscle.

Imo try the prop, water retention will be minimal, metabolism will increase helping you to burn that bf and the eca will help finish things off.

[~BG~ Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ~BG~]

If you cant afford pharma var and your bf isnt low your wasting your money.

[xamo Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close xamo]

Hey BG,

Prior to using AAS, I used to take in more or less 3000 calories a day, with the same training I do now. Difference is that had me drop fat and get lean. I'm on the same diet, while on AAS, I gained a shit load of weight and mass. I'm pretty sure a fourth of it is water weight but not more. I can gain fat on as low as 60g of carbs a day. That's why I try to minimize it while also keeping it in the morning.

My diet isn't the issue here, or if it is, then I guess I need to tweak it a bit so that it fits with the AAS cycle. But that wouldn't make much sense to me as this is a good cutting diet out of AAS, and a fat gainer while on?

Since I was a kid i've always put on huge amount of weight. Even while being extremely active. Played water polo since I was 6... and still got up in body fat. When I started weight lifting a few years back and as I've got to know nutritional and fat gain factors I've been able to make myself a pretty good diet. Proof is I lost over 60lbs of fat in a year while building myself a solid core and not gaining it right back. I am not one of those people who lose then gain. I'm extremely active and a Marine as well, which can tell you how my cardio goes.

Any thought mbig or Sam?

[JuicyJuggalo Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close JuicyJuggalo]

Well sir the bottom line is always the same. Juice doesn't make the results, the training and diet do. As opposite as it seems, I can cut on deca or bulk on winstrol either way leaving a leaner result, it all just depends on my diet and training protocol.

[xamo Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close xamo]

No offense man but it feels like you haven't read what I wrote in my previous reply.

[~BG~ Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ~BG~]

Ever carb cycle ?

[xamo Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close xamo]

Yes BG, the results weren't conclusive.

[~BG~ Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ~BG~]

Hey BG,

Prior to using AAS, I used to take in more or less 3000 calories a day, with the same training I do now. Difference is that had me drop fat and get lean. I'm on the same diet, while on AAS, I gained a shit load of weight and mass. I'm pretty sure a fourth of it is water weight but not more. I can gain fat on as low as 60g of carbs a day. That's why I try to minimize it while also keeping it in the morning.

My diet isn't the issue here, or if it is, then I guess I need to tweak it a bit so that it fits with the AAS cycle. But that wouldn't make much sense to me as this is a good cutting diet out of AAS, and a fat gainer while on?

Since I was a kid i've always put on huge amount of weight. Even while being extremely active. Played water polo since I was 6... and still got up in body fat. When I started weight lifting a few years back and as I've got to know nutritional and fat gain factors I've been able to make myself a pretty good diet. Proof is I lost over 60lbs of fat in a year while building myself a solid core and not gaining it right back. I am not one of those people who lose then gain. I'm extremely active and a Marine as well, which can tell you how my cardio goes.

Any thought mbig or Sam?

I hear you, but you have to manipulate your metabolism and deplete your glycogen storage and replenish it to keep your body burning BF while allowing you to build muscle. Im not being a dick here at all, but Im not sure you really have a grip on BB'ing dieting. See what the others say.....

[xamo Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close xamo]

I'm not saying that trust me but that's what I'm doing, in the morning I deplete it then take Universal Torrent to replenish it. I can feel my metabolism kick in. I'm not looking into bodybuilding. My main goal is to get shredded while staying athletic which should be easily achievable considering the cardio and plyo I do.. I do 3 hours of intensive work outs a day, including but not limited to weightlifting, swimming, kickboxing, track & field etc... yet 3000 calories is more than enough while on AAS, it even gets me fat while on the same diet but off AAS it has me lose weight yet sometimes isn't enough to get me going... see the contradiction in it?

I know I'm a newbie in AAS, but I know a shit load about diets and esp my body, that is as far as cutting goes. Bulking diets I'm still learning. I didn't take it wrong don't worry I'm just trying to explain myself as clearly as possible

[xamo Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close xamo]

I will add though.. maybe it only is water retention plus a minor fat and good muscle mass. That I will only know for sure after I'm done. But yeah..

[mbig245 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close mbig245]

Well, There is nothing wrong with keeping it simple. Run some Test. and maybe some eq. (for the lean gains) concentrate on burning fat and if you achieve this goal then polish it up at the end of your cycle with some winni or mast. (if your fat level is in check)..... You got it bud!!!

[~BG~ Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ~BG~]

I will add though.. maybe it only is water retention plus a minor fat and good muscle mass. That I will only know for sure after I'm done. But yeah..

I tip my hat to you for not getting pissed at what I said, I was worried you would take it the wrong way , sometimes after posting something it doesnt sound the way you meant it . If your bf is a little on the high side when you go on most have the tendency to retain more water making your skin thick, hench making you think you are gaining fat. I myself never run over 350mgs of test. That being said you will be able to tell during pct when you run your serm or ai. This will pull most of the water out of you. This is why many say they look their best during pct.

I recommend you run nolva/clomid during your pct and see if this is the case (also think hcg would be a great idea). As far as time off, it takes time for your htpa to begin to function normaly again, I would recomend 3 months off, if you rush back on your taking a chance of no fully recovering then surpressing yourself right away again, this may soon lead to low T levels and hrt. Now for your next cycle I recomend.....

Prop 100mgs eod for 6-8 weeks
ECA stack cycled through out

This will allow you to get used to eod shots, see if you retain much less water on a short ester compared to a long (most people do and I think you will to). By doing a shorter length cycle with a short ester you can start pct sooner and go back on quicker because you werent on so long. This will also minimize the surpression of your htpa. Then next cycle if you dont mind the injects, then you can add 75mgs of tren-a eod, that would be your 3rd cycle and you should be ready by then.