1st Time AAS users

[PCcorg]

I do have a theory, that after all the research I've done over the years I do believe to be the truth.

The first oral made for bodybuilding was DBOL. When trying to get the FDA to approve a drug you must list all side effects even if those sides had nothing to do with said drug.
In the case of DBOL the creators of it of course realize they added the AA 17 to the compound which would make it pass the liver two times.
Anyone that thinks they did not have to address this, I mean what potential side effects or negative effects two passes through the liver could cause you're not paying attention.

My theory, I believe is correct, is their solution to this was to list in the potential sides that the AA 17 Addition cause a double pass through the liver. Now remember they had absolutely no real proof this double pass was at all harmful, or just mildly harmful, or benign, or it would wreck someone's liver. Obviously it does not destroy anyone's liver or all the bodybuilders from the 70s livers would have failed. I believe what was added was that this double pass leaves open the possibility of a more pronounced chance of some sort of liver damage than injectables that pass once.
This was put in there with no scientific data to back it up it was a potential guess and I believe basically a wrong guess.

If AA 17S WERE as liver toxic as they are made out to be my liver should be shot along with 100,000s of other bodybuilders livers also. In 30 years I can't find a single case linking AA 17 STEROIDS TO LIVER DAMAGE OR CHIRROSIS. Both alcohol and Tylenol are so much worse for the liver than any anabolic it's not funny.
You want to wreck your liver drink every day and wash down a handful of Tylenol with it. You'll last a few years maybe.
Now take 3 ANADROL a day same period of time, a dose I don't think anyone needs, and 99% you will show no indication of liver damage.

If you want to use DBOL at a reasonable dose 30-50 MGS a day go ahead and you do not need to use it for 4 or 6 weeks to ensure your liver doesn't fail. Even a 16 week run and without prior liver damage you'll be fine.

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[PCcorg]

I started with 200mg/wk of test cyp, then went to 200mg 2X/wk of it. Then I added 200mg 2x/wk of Deca and got amazing results. Over time I've tried D-bol oral with the cyp and wasn't happy with it mostly because of its very short half-life meaning I had to dose every 2 days, & I learned of its ability to produce liver problems; I tried Masteron with cyp & wasn't happy either. I was learning and experimenting, which is a good thing for all of us, as long as we educate ourselves about anything we use in our program.

So I went back to my 200-250ml twice/week of cypionate & 200-250ml twice/week of Deca. I have to use the 200 or 250 depending on availability. This combo is great for me, I'm thrilled with the results.

I'm over 50. I started lifting and I wanted to be a pro bodybuilder at 14 years old. First competed at 18. The competed every year until early 2000s. The gym I went to from 16 was Diamond gym in Summit NJ. Anyone familiar with high level bodybuilding should know exactly what gym I'm speaking of. It's called gold Venice of East Coast. So many pros came out of there it's crazy.
Anyway, I received very good info from the start and by now I don't think there is much I don't know about training, nutrition and drugs

I want to comment on the comment you made about DBOL and the liver. This really applies to all aa 17 orals in the liver. Honestly, for 30 years now I've been searching for a medical journal article from somewhere like the New England Journal of Medicine to try to determine if there is much validity to AA 17 ORALS being as bad for the liver as purported

Needless to say in 3 decades I have found nothing at all kinking the use of AA 17 Oral and liver damage, chirrosi or liver cancer definitively or close really. All I've found is cases of raised liver enzymes while in the drugs, injectables and raise enzymes also. Thing is the raise in liver enzymes number one is far from any indication of liver damage and when I have found cases of raised enzymes it's usually slight and goes back to normal when drug is stopped. Personally, I've used every oral made I think and my liver enzymes have never gone out of normal range.



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[PCcorg]

This is a great mssg, I found it very helpful. I'm not a big guy, and I've recently returned to the gym after an 11 yr absence. I take cypionate for low test from my primary. 200mg/bi-weekly, which is nothing. I independently increased dosage incrementally to 500mg/week (300 each glute on Thu, 200 ea glute on Sun). A pro builder I met suggested I step down my weekly to 400/week for a couple weeks, then down to 300/wk.

I have basically a swimmer's build but more defined; great delts, pecs need more size but looking good, arms coming along, legs lookin' good (genes) and my glutes are growing nicely. I want a muscular look, but not too big. Due to low T, for 10 yrs I had no libido, difficulty getting it up, more difficulty keeping it up, and climaxing. The test has helped a lot in the sex area, but not consistent. I just can't be a guy who can't even get off 1-2 times/wk min.

Hope I haven't confused you. Bottom line: I want to get about 2X bigger than I am now, and have a sex drive and can perform. Shrinkage is very noticeable, and I've heard/read about HCG use @ the end of my cycle. Cycle started basically Feb 1, so Apr 1 is about 8 weeks. Should I then back down to 200/bi-weekly, HCG, wait ?? before starting another cycle?

What do you suggest?

I'm a little confused because you say you want to accomplish one thing and then you say you want another thing to happen both of which are the total opposite of each other.

If you want to gain this muscle you're saying you gain you want to gain you're going to have to decide what you want to do. But if you want to gain this muscle you want to gain you're saying you want to gain you need to stay on the drugs and you need to increase the drugs I say it a 500 mg to test and maybe at an oral of some kind if not an oral Deca something. Even 400 Mgs of test a week isn't bad but I would add something to it.

Now if your concern is what your libido and your HCG intake and getting your balls back to size that's a totally different ball game man you would have to do an entirely different thing to accomplish that so you're really comparing apples to oranges here.

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[PCcorg]

I have tried exactly what you're saying a long time ago and I don't think it's effective with something like test Enanthate. I truly believe you're better off waiting to three weeks or so till it kicks in and it's going to kick in at about 3 week Mark. Then once you stop it's going to be in you for about another three to four weeks. Following can work if you take like a thousand milligrams for 4 weeks but the amount it works I don't think it's worth it.


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[hasnainjave]

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[Skibuck]

i like what I hear. my first cycle is a single compound cycle. Should I duplicate that same cycle if I have positive results? and without increase?

I'm talking only 500mg/wk test C for 12 wks.

I started with 200mg/wk of test cyp, then went to 200mg 2X/wk of it. Then I added 200mg 2x/wk of Deca and got amazing results. Over time I've tried D-bol oral with the cyp and wasn't happy with it mostly because of its very short half-life meaning I had to dose every 2 days, & I learned of its ability to produce liver problems; I tried Masteron with cyp & wasn't happy either. I was learning and experimenting, which is a good thing for all of us, as long as we educate ourselves about anything we use in our program.

So I went back to my 200-250ml twice/week of cypionate & 200-250ml twice/week of Deca. I have to use the 200 or 250 depending on availability. This combo is great for me, I'm thrilled with the results.

[Skibuck]

Fantastic info, thanks! Newbies need to know this stuff!

[delahoya]

After reading all this amazing information (All the post)

What would be the right first time cycle and do I need a PCT with it???

- 10 weeks of TEST E/C 200mg to 300mg?
- What PCT?

Thanks to all

[collabera]

Here is something that hasn't been brought up in this post. If one was looking for peak affects of test e earlier on in a 12 week cycle at 500mg a week, should one on their first cycle like this consider front loading? Like I said, for the purpose of seeing peak affects earlier on. Or instead of simply doubling the doses for the 1st week, instead of 2 pins at 500 each in week one, could you split that into 4 at 250 each. Obviously that's a lot of injections in the 1st week for someone on their first cycle, but it would kick start things with a little bit more of a balanced build up of blood test levels. Someone correct me if I am wrong and give me some insight on the front loading in general. Ive read people for it and against it and kinda confused.

[ADONIS]

The human body constantly seeks Homeostasis / equilibrium.

By adding new compounds or raising ur dosage before needed ur essentially teaching ur body how to combat that chemical.
So if u do elaborate cycles early in ur career u will render those compound Less effective before ur ready to reap the benefits.

To put it another way ; lets say it took u 1 drink to get buzzed the more u drank u did not get a better buzz u got drunk or sick + more tolerant. Therefore it took more drinks to get u buzzed next time, eventually u added hard alcohol.
The more u drink the more u need to drink to get buzzed. It is similar to AAS the goal is to use as little AAS as possible to get positive results longer. To only add compounds when needed, not just to try them or cuz someone said its great.

- If u use 500mg Test, 400mg Deca and 50 mg DBol on ur 1st cycle ur body will need more + more in future cycles to get the same benefits.
So don't rush into elaborate multi-compound mega-dosed cycles, not only will u waste AAS, ur time, u will waste ur $$ and potentially have some negative side effects.

JM2C

U need to Grow Smart B4 u can Grow Big

Well put - quite true

[mrhardmuscle]

Hello muscle gurus im new here & wanna do 1st cycle in in early 40s im I have test 400 dbol winni anavar adex & clomid & clenb so I have everything ready to go can someone tell whats the best way to use it im 5.9' 198lbs BF 12-15 so whats the best way to start .

thnx in advance

[Bigpump]

I've been reading for a while trying to learn as much as possible and poss like this have been a huge help! Thx.

[cjamesroc30]

I'm looking to start my first cycle since 10 years ago. I want to do Test-E, and Dbol. What should I use for hcg & pct? These are new to me and every where I look I read something different.

[cornbread]

Newbie here. Really glad to have read this post. They could put together a bachelor's degree around all the knowledge that appears to be needed to doing AS correctly.

[Time Bandit]

A year and half on Test and E-blocker and the sweet spot is awesome when ya find it and not so bad when it slips by.. With in a few days I can figure it out...