1st Time AAS users

[ODB Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ODB]

The human body constantly seeks Homeostasis / equilibrium.

By adding new compounds or raising ur dosage before needed ur essentially teaching ur body how to combat that chemical.
So if u do elaborate cycles early in ur career u will render those compound Less effective before ur ready to reap the benefits.

To put it another way ; lets say it took u 1 drink to get buzzed the more u drank u did not get a better buzz u got drunk or sick + more tolerant. Therefore it took more drinks to get u buzzed next time, eventually u added hard alcohol.
The more u drink the more u need to drink to get buzzed. It is similar to AAS the goal is to use as little AAS as possible to get positive results longer. To only add compounds when needed, not just to try them or cuz someone said its great.

- If u use 500mg Test, 400mg Deca and 50 mg DBol on ur 1st cycle ur body will need more + more in future cycles to get the same benefits.
So don't rush into elaborate multi-compound mega-dosed cycles, not only will u waste AAS, ur time, u will waste ur $$ and potentially have some negative side effects.

JM2C

U need to Grow Smart B4 u can Grow Big

- UPDATE - (I have been looking for this study -saw it in past.)
the full abstact can be found here.Testosterone dose-response relationships in healthy young men -- Bhasin et al. 281 (6): E1172 -- AJP - Endocrinology and Metabolism

The following text outlines the benefits and risks of Testosterone administration based on a clinical human trial of 61 healthy men in 2001. The purpose of the trial was to determine the dose dependency of testosterone’s effects on fat-free mass and muscle performance. In this trial 61 men, 18-35years old were randomized into 5 groups receiving weekly injections of 25, 50, 125, 300, 600 mg of Testosterone enanthate for 20 weeks. They had previous weight-lifting experience and normal T levels. Their nutritional intake was standardized and they did not undertake any strength training during the trial. The only two groups that reported significant muscle building benefits were the 300 and 600 mg groups so any dose lower than 300mg will not be considered in this essay. 12 men participated in the 300 mg group and 13 men in the 600 mg group.
600mg of Testosterone a week for 20 weeks resulted in the following benefits. Increased fat free mass, muscle strength, muscle power, muscle volume, hemoglobin and igf-1.
The same 600 mg administration resulted in 2 side effects. HDL cholesterol was negatively correlated and 2 men developed acne.

The normal range for total T in men is 241-827 ng/dl according to Labcorp and 260-1000 ng/dl according to Quest Laboratories. The normal range for igf-1 is 81-225 according to Labcorp. Total T and igf-1 levels were taken after 16 weeks and resulted in the following;

Total Testosterone
300 mg group-1,345 ng/dl a 691 ng increase from baseline
600 mg group-2,370 ng/dl a 1,737 ng increase from baseline

igf-1
300 mg group-388 ng/dl a 74 ng increase from baseline
600 mg group-304 ng/dl a 77 ng increase from baseline

Body composition was measured after 20 weeks.

Fat Free Mass by underwater weighing
300 mg group-5.2kg (11.4lbs) increase
600 mg group-7.9kg (17.38lbs) increase
Fat Mass by underwater weighing
300 mg group-.5kg (1.1lbs) decrease
600 mg group-1.1kg (2.42lbs) decrease
Thigh Muscle Volume
300 mg group-84 cubic centimeter increase
600 mg group-126 cubic centimeter increase
Quadriceps Muscle Volume
300 mg group-43 cubic centimeter increase
600 mg group-68 cubic centimeter increase
Leg Press Strength
300 mg group-72.2kg (158.8lbs) increase
600 mg group-76.5kg (168.3lbs) increase
Leg Power
300 mg group-38.6 watt increase
600 mg group-48.1 watt increase
Hemoglobin
300 mg group-6.1 gram per liter increase
600 mg group-14.2 gram per liter increase
Plasma HDL Cholesterol
300 mg group-5.7 mg/dl decrease
600 mg group-8.4 mg/dl decrease
Acne
300 mg group-7 of the 12 men developed acne
600 mg group-2 of the 13 men developed acne

There were no significant changes in PSA or liver enzymes at any dose up to 600mg. However, long-term effects of androgen administration on the prostate, cardiovascular risk, and behavior are unknown. The study demonstrated that there is a dose dependant relationship with testosterone administration. In other words the more testosterone administered the greater the muscle building effects and potential for side effects.

Given the results of the study and based on years of personal experience I believe the first time user can safely use between 300-600 mg of testosterone enanthate or cypionate per week for 8-12 weeks. Because it is desirable to have even blood androgen levels I advise at least 2 equal injections per week. Testosterone cypionate peaks within 1-2 days after injection and falls off to almost baseline by day 10. Therefore waiting 7 days between injections of cypionate would cause wide fluctuations in blood androgen levels.


If a first time user wanted to use 600 mg of cypionate or enanthate per week he would inject 300 mg on Tuesday and another 300 mg on Saturday each week for 10 weeks. When injecting long heavy esters like cypionate with this frequency I tend to have less acne then 1 injection per week.
There are a number of esters which provide varying release times. Acetate or propionate esters extend the release time of testosterone a couple of days. In contrast, a deconate ester prolongs the release of testosterone about 3 weeks. Testosterone enanthate and cypionate are almost identical esters. The use of an ester allows for a less frequent injection schedule than using a water based testosterone like suspension which has no ester at all and is rapidly in and out of your system after injection. The published release times are not exact and are many times based on a single injection not many multiple injections which can delay the release of the hormone. Other factors affect release times of esters such as scar tissue and the muscle group injected. Only a blood test can confirm when the active hormone has cleared your system.
Esters not only effect release times but also the potency of the Testosterone as esters make up part of the steroid weight. This must be taken into account when calculating dosages. The longer the release time the less free hormone. For example propionate is about 15% more potent mg. for mg. then enanthate so 500mg of propionate would equal about 575 mg. of enanthate.

[BADSEED1976 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close BADSEED1976]

if this is true, which i believe it is (but who am i) this is prolly the best knowledge/advice anyone could get !!!!!!!

[M FREAKY Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close M FREAKY]

I agree good statement ^^^^

[timguinness Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close timguinness]

Good post. Always exercise caution until you know how you will personally react to any given compound. Less is more in a lot of cases, especially AAS. Although we all use them to be healthier, the opposite is likely to happen if one pushes it too hard too fast. Good lookin' out bro!

[Guest Close Guest]

def well put should be a footnote imo. .. another problem people have is not only starting out with high doses and too many compounds is increasing the doses the next cycle and so on even if it is not necessary.. u should stick to doses that are effective until u notice that u arent living up to the potential u are used to then and only then should the dose be up'd..

[sam1976 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close sam1976]

im gonna make this a sticky. good info for the new user to think about when planning that first cycle

[SoooLucky Member Find all posts View Profile Close SoooLucky]

i like what I hear. my first cycle is a single compound cycle. Should I duplicate that same cycle if I have positive results? and without increase?

I'm talking only 500mg/wk test C for 12 wks.

[ODB Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ODB]

i like what I hear. my first cycle is a single compound cycle. Should I duplicate that same cycle if I have positive results? and without increase?
I'm talking only 500mg/wk test C for 12 wks.

Yes Sir - if it ain't broke don't fix it. - if u find u need a little boost or kick start (say cycle 3 or 4) the next compound suggested to add is Dbol.

[SoooLucky Member Find all posts View Profile Close SoooLucky]

with dbol, i would only need to add to the first 3-4 weeks of cycle right? I have been doing research for 5 years and ready for first cycle (ITS IN THE MAIL SAYS naps!!!) and this is the BEST thread I have read other than the scientific make-up boring educcationsal stuff. lol.

Thanks for this forum thread!

[G1LBY Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close G1LBY]

That's well described ODB. I'm new to the AAS never used them I was a Powerlifter for about 6 years been working out for 11 years. I was gonna run 500mg test cyp/ 30mg Dbol a week. I was wondering if it was a good start at the right dose. Also, I'm gonna be 26 in a month I'm 5'10", 195lbs @ 9% BF. I have a past of my body weight going up to 220 naturally. Was wondering if Test/Dbol is a good cycle for size and strength.

[05mako Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close 05mako]

Thanks for the insight ODB. I received your advice from my last post and have seen my md and he says my test low normal 300 or 400. Any advice on using maybe 200 mg of test prop and 200 deca for my first cycle? Also would hgh191aa do me any good? Thanks for your help.

[Time Bandit Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Time Bandit]

If I may.. The new low is less then 500 and I would look into whats the cause for the low.. There are a number of factors that can lead to low-T .
The reason I raise the issue is cause after your cycle your testicles are going to be in a shut down state. If there was an issue before your cycle
I would think you would want to check it out first before you smoke your chances of still producing your own test after PCT.

Just my 2 cents.

I'm also on HRT user.

[Nature101 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Nature101]

For a first cycle- I would not recommend test prop. Its a lot of maintenance and is very painful, especially to muscles not used to having a needle injected into them everyday. For a first cycle id recommend Test Enanthate or Cypionate. Only have to inject 2x a week instead of 5+ that you would with prop. At 200 mg of Test E/C you would be doing yourself some good. 500mg of test alone per week is more standard as most of us here are more tuned into body building, but 200 will most certainly raise your T levels. As far as Deca, well I dont usually tell new users to run more than a single compound for many reasons, one being you typically dont need it and you wont want to get used to running too many compounds too early. Also, your body is going to react differently to different compounds and its a good idea to get used to one ( Test) before adding a second. The HGH191aa is also something I would put on the shelf for later use. administering and keeping track of 3 major compounds for your first cycle is overkill. Not to mention all the AIs you have to dial in and a good solid PCT. Keep it simple bro, this is a marathon- not a sprint!

[ODB Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ODB]

Thanks for the insight ODB. I received your advice from my last post and have seen my md and he says my test low normal 300 or 400. Any advice on using maybe 200 mg of test prop and 200 deca for my first cycle? Also would hgh191aa do me any good? Thanks for your help.

300-400 is ok/good (read TimeBandits post) but if u feel like crap then lets get rocking - just remember this is forever.

For #1 drop the deca to much to play with + learn for ur 1st cycle
If ur going for TRT or HRT cruise then 150-200mg is cool but if ur going to hit a boost/cycle I wld like to see a Nice 250-300mg Test C or E cycle 2xwk possibly w/a Dbol bump if u choose.

I do feel that GH is of great benefit to us older males but it is costly...if u have the $ add it @ 2ius EOD (or on workout days).

[Time Bandit Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Time Bandit]

Low T SUCKS!!! Its like one of the deepest holes to get out of... Never want to do with out T again.