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abhishek · 06-06-2010, 02:56 PM

bro. plz tell me that should i've to take some precautions on the end of course of slin like zero sugar and low carb for 10 days??? a pro. coach told me that u must have to go on zero sugar and very low carb when u will stop to taking slin. plz reply me asap. my course will be over in the end of this week,

sam1976 · 06-13-2010, 12:15 AM

what do you mean? you're currently using slin and this week, you're discontinuing it? maybe someone else has info i don't, but i haven't heard of having to go to a low carb state after you stop using slin. i've used it a couple times now and never was told or have read that you need to do this afterwords. but maybe strongman or someone else has some more info on this that i dont...

methan · 07-08-2010, 06:54 PM

actually taking slin will ALL depends on your stats if you're really skinny or/and want to compete soon, you could use slin to gain weight on your off days, but why don't let off days be off days ..and relax, eat, sleap and recover.. I know builders that watch their foodintake the whole week and they use the saterday for a lonely lesser muscle group to train and eat junk (junk-day if you have to watch your weight). Some add some earobic exercisings too. And after a lazy Sunday you have a whole week to use again.

As a rule of the tumb: 1 iu for every 10 kg bodymass. And two hours before and three hours after your shot of slin NO FAT.
After the shot (some wait 15 minutes but why??) 100 gr quick carbohydrates preferably fluidly ( b.e. weightgainer and like Marco said creatine is optional too) 15 minutes later a meal from mixed proteines and carbo's.
Keep chocalate or sugar or beaverages with sugar present in case you suffer from a hypo.

took this great article from AP :

"Please note (warning): I have personally used insulin for over 8 years and can control it's effects for my personal level of development. I am not a medical doctor and therefore not fully qualified to recommend insulin use for people. What follows is my experience in 8 years of use and what I have learned. If anyone has additional information that is pertinent, please add to the thread, but do not reply from heresay, only if you are qualified to add something of value to this thread.

Insulin is one of many hormones that helps the body turn the food we eat into energy. Also, insulin helps us store energy that we can use later. After we eat, insulin works by causing sugar (glucose) to go from the blood into our body's cells to make fat, sugar, and protein. When we need more energy between meals, insulin will help us use the fat, sugar, and protein that we have stored. This occurs whether we make our own insulin in the pancreas gland or take it by injection.

8 Years ago when I first made the decision to try insulin, information was limited, the internet was not full of help like it is now and I relied on correspondance from Rich Gaspari and Tim Belknap who were extremely helpful. I started my first insulin use off season, during bulking when it's use is easiest to control. I used Humulin R, regular resonse time insulin for my first cycle. It has a release time of up to 8 hours, so blood sugar monitoring is mandatory. It has an onset of about 1/2 hour, reaching its peak in 2-5 hours and tapering off by hour 8. I used 2iu post workout with 20 grams of sugar per iu, immediately following a workout, increasing 2 iu per week until I reached a maximum of 12iu. Since it will remain active in the body for up to 8 hours, morning workouts were a must. Because I was off season, I was able to take in enough carbs every three hours to keep from going hypo.

My second cycle of insulin was Humulin type L, which is a very long acting insuling; since I was bulking, I decided to try a long acting insulin to stay anabolic all day. It will remain active in the body for 16-20 hours, is active 1/2 hour after injection, reaching its peak in 3-5 hours, will re-peak at 10-12 hours and slowly taper down. You must use a glucometer for any insulin use, but especially with long term insulin. I had to consume minimum 100 grams of carbs every 3 hours during the day, I got nothing but fat off of insulin type L and do not ever recommend anyone use it. It is too hard to control.

I did many cycles of Humulin R for years, progressing from 2iu up to 20iu post workout. After many post workout only cycles of insulin, I started to experiment with insulin use on non-workout days. I again started slowly and increased dosages with monitoring by glucometer. I used only with breakfast at first and then added in an afternoon injection as well. I never went above 10iu at each meal, always checking my blood sugar every 1/2 hour. Yes your fingers will hurt like hell, but I would rather have sore fingers than live in a casket.

Finally Humalog R was introduced and I first tried it in 1999. This is what bodybuilders had been waiting for, a fast acting insulin that had a quick onset, short duration and was better controlled through sugar intake. My first cycle of Humalog started with the again customary 2iu postworkout, slowly increasing to 10iu post workout. Humalog has an onset of 15-20 minutes, reaches a peak in 1 hour and will remain active up to 5 hours.

I only recommend Humalog use for anyone considering insulin. It is the easiest to control and work with. Here are my recommendations and guidelines for use:

Start with 2iu postworkout only, drinking 10 grams glucose or dextrose per unit injected. You may slowly increase the dose up to 10iu total but never exceed 10iu, even if you are experienced. You must, I repeat, must use a glucometer, don't even think of using insulin without it. Going by feel for symptoms of hypo is stupid and reckless. You want to make sure your blood sugar levels stay above 80mg/dl ideally, but never let them drop below 40.

Since humalog is active for up to 5 hours, you must make sure not to take it after evening workouts, unless you will be awake for those 5 hours. Insulin levels can crash rapidly and there are no warning signs when you are sleeping. Low levels will make you sleepy, so you just won't wake up - ever!

Your postworkout meal should consist of minimum 10 grams sugar per iu injected plus minimum 50 grams whey protein. Your follow up meal, 1 hour after injection, when it reaches its peak, should consist of easily digested proteins and carbs. No red meat; fish, chicken or turkey are more easily digested. Carbs should be high glycemic, such as potatoes, white rice or pasta.

Your final meal during the 5 hour window can be anything you desire as long as it has a minimum of 75 grams carbs. Oatmeal, red meat etc are all acceptable, and your carbs should ideally be low glycemic to sustain your stabilizing insulin levels.

Insulin should be refridgerated at all times; though it is safe to leave at room temperature for up to 30 days, I don't recommend it.

Your injections should always be sub-q, IM injections do not allow for the regular onset times and delay onset which makes controlling carbs and monitoring sugar levels harder to do.

Ideally injections should be in the lower abdominal area, sub-q. Pinch 1 inch of skin, roll in between your fingers to remove fatty deposits and inject at a 90 degree angle crossing through the skin. This will insure an optimal sub-q injection and less chance of IM or fat injections. Both will slow absorbtion time which we are trying to eliminate.

Take a glucometer reading 1/2 hour after injection to check levels. If they are below 80mg/dl than take in more carbs immediately, take another glucometer reading after the one hour mark to check full onset and reaction. Again, if below 80mg than take in a fast acting carb with your one hour meal.

Signs of hypo include, dizziness, slow slurred speech, light-headedness, sleepiness, lethargy, numbness in the outer limbs, and blurred vision. Never take insulin unsupervised, alway let someone you know that you are injecting so they can help monitor warning signs and symptoms. Remember, the glucometer is your best friend, but someone else may notice symptoms before you do and can assist in raising blood sugar levels immediately.

You may progress to taking Humalog on non-workout days, but only after breakfast, and no more than 10iu. You must work up to the dosage and again follow the above guidelines. Your meals should consist of a mix of fast and slow acting carbs, and always include protein. Milk has fast acting carbs, oatmeal is low glycemic, etc. always use the glycemic index for carbs.

These are the general rules of taking insulin safely and sanely. Again, I do not recommend the casual lifter take insulin ever, it is better left to those who compete and have reached a superior level of development. It is best used to break plateaus, such as with GH or IGF. It is not for newbies, nor for those without minimum 5 years lifting experience with steroid use.

If there is anything I forgot, please PM me or add advice to this thread, but again only by those qualified to do so. You should have at least 5 cycles insulin use to be qualified to help others. This is very serious business and I cannot stress enough, not for the casual lifter."

If you shoot a few iu before training you will get a better pump, but its a risky game nad you'll have to make sure you have a buddy that can help you AND the extra quick carbo's present..

Work-out in the gym *****the bb-er shoots a dose of slin (1 iu per 10 kg bodymass is normal*** starting with 5 iu and then raising with 2 iu per time). He eats qiuck carbs, and later a full meal. One and a half hour later you take some blood and feed that to the slinmeter. The ideal level is 6 ? 7, if the insulinlevel is higher then 7 you raise the insulindose. He is on a dose of 10 iu and his bloodlevel is 10. Tomorrow he will try a dose of 12 iu wich is higher then normal, my guess is he will need somewhere around 14 iu. If he reaches a steady state ( reacts every time with the same bloodlevel after the same dose of insulin) and stops growing again, we'll add the growth hormone -T3. This is more to find out what exactly his needs are. When he prepairs for a show next year we'll have to be sure.

methan · 07-08-2010, 06:58 PM

An interview with Milos on slin usage:

INTERVIEWS ARE A DIME A DOZEN AND CAN GO ONE OF 2 WAYS. THEY ARE EITHER COMPLETELY f**kING BORING WHICH IS THE KIND YOU READ IN THE MAGAZINES.....OR THEY ARE COMPLETELY FABRICATED, LIKE THE KIND YOU SEE ON OTHER BODYBUILDING WEBSITES. THIS INTERVIEW REPRESENTS NEITHER. THE NAME OF THE INDIVIDUAL HAS BEEN KEPT ANONYMOUS DUE TO CONTRACTUAL OBLIGATIONS. WITH THAT BEING SAID, WHAT IS TO FOLLOW IS A MOST INFORMATIVE AND EDUCATIONAL INTERVIEW ON ONE PARTICULAR TOPIC:

TREVOR; WHAT WAS THE CAUSE OF THE 20-30LB BODYWEIGHT JUMPS FROM 1994-PRESENT. I MEAN LETS FACE IT, NASSER EL SONBATY WAS AN AVERAGE PRO UNTIL 1995 AND RONNIE COLEMAN WAS A 2ND OR 3RD TIER ATHLETE UP UNTIL 1997, JEAN PIERRE FUX GAINED 40 LBS OF TISSUE IN A YEAR AND A HALF, CHRIS CORMIER HAS GONE FROM AVERAGE TO TOP 3, HELL EVEN DORIAN WENT FROM 230LBS TO 260LBS SEEMINGLY OVERNIGHT. ALL OF THESE MEN HAVE HAD LOTS OF EXPERIENCE WITH STEROIDS AND G.H. SO THERE HAD TO BE ANOTHER FACTOR. AT FIRST IT WAS THOUGHT IGF-1 WAS RESPONSIBLE, BUT THIS PROVED TO BE A RATHER INEFFECTIVE COMPOUND.

SO WHAT WAS IT?

THIS QUESTION HAS BEEN ON EVERYONE'S MIND SINCE THE EMERGENCE OF 280-290LB BODYBUILDERS FROM SEEMINGLY OUT OF NO-WHERE. I ALWAYS THOUGHT IT MUST HAVE BEEN THE EMERGENCE OF IGF-1, BUT THEN AFTER RESEARCHING SOME THINGS, I FOUND OUT THAT IGF-1 IS A nuts DRUG AND DOESN'T DO MUCH. (hey this is Trevors opinion not mine-DC) WHAT GIVES?

IFBBPRO: I N S U L I N! THAT'S WHAT GIVES! I'VE KNOWN A LOT OF THESE GUYS FOR A WHILE NOW AND I CAN UNEQUIVOCALLY TELL YOU THAT IT IS THE RESULT OF INSULIN THAT THESE HUGE LEAPS HAVE BEEN MADE.

TREVOR; INSULIN? IF THAT IS THE CASE, THEN HOW COME SO MANY PEOPLE CLAIM IT WILL MAKE YOU FAT

IFBBPRO: BECAUSE IT CAN MAKE YOU FAT IF YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING AND DO NOT USE THE RIGHT TYPE.

TREVOR; CAN YOU EXPLAIN HOW TO USE IT SO ONE WOULD NOT GET FAT.

IFBBPRO: ACTUALLY IT'S QUITE SIMPLY. YOU SEE THERE ARE DIFFERENT TYPES OF INSULIN L, N, R , AND HUMALOG. THE DIFFERENCE IS IN THE ACTING TIMES. L LASTS IN THE SYSTEM FOR AROUND 24HOURS PEAKING SEVERAL TIMES THROUGHOUT THE DAY AND TAKES 2 HOURS TO BEGIN TO WORK, N IS MEDIUM IN ITS ACTING TIME LASTING AROUND 12 HOURS AND R IS THE QUICKEST OF THESE THREE, LASTING FOR ABOUT 6 HOURS AND HITTING THE SYSTEM IN ABOUT 30-45 MINUTES. HUMALOG IS NEWER AND ACTUALLY BEGINS WORKING IN 5-15 MINUTES AND LASTS FOR 4 HOURS

ONCE YOU UNDERSTAND THIS, YOU CAN USE INSULIN TO YOUR ADVANTAGE. WITH ALL INSULIN YOU NEED TO HAVE GLUCOSE PRESENT IN THE BLOOD STREAM SO IT CAN HAVE SOMETHING TO ACT ON AND TRANSPORT IT INTO THE CELLS. THE POPULAR RULE OF THUMB OF 10-15 GRAMS OF GLUCOSE/CARBS PER I.U. OF INSULIN WAS SOMETHING THAT I ACTUALLY CAME UP WITH. PLEASE DON'T THINK I AM BEING ARROGANT, IT'S JUST THAT I WAS DOING A LOT OF RESEARCH ON INSULIN IN THE EARLY 90'S AND IT IS DIRECTLY AND INDIRECTLY DUE TO THAT RESEARCH THAT INSULIN HAS BECOME A POPULAR TOOL IN THE BODYBUILDERS ARSENAL. MANY PEOPLE HAVE CONTACTED ME ON HOW TO USE INSULIN. NOW WITH INSULIN YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT IT IS AN INDISCRIMINANT CARRIER WHICH IS BOTH GOOD AND BAD. GOOD BECAUSE ALONG WITH THE TRANSPORTING OF GLUCOSE, IT WILL ALSO TRANSPORT AMINO ACIDS INTO THE MUSCLE CELLS. BAD BECAUSE IF THERE IS A LOT OF FAT PRESENT, IT WILL SHOVE THAT INTO CELLS AS WELL AND THIS IS WHY YOU GET FAT FROM INSULIN. IF YOU USE A LONG ACTING INSULIN THAT PEAKS SEVERAL TIMES THROUGHOUT THE DAY, IT IS IMPERATIVE THAT YOU EAT A CARB AND PROTEIN MEAL EVERY 2 HOURS TO INSURE THAT WHEN IT PEAKS, YOU HAVE A NUTRIENT POOL AVAILABLE FOR IT TO WORK ON. IF YOU TOOK A SHOT OF INSULIN IN THE MORNING AND IT WAS LONG ACTING, IF YOU EAT A PIZZA AT 8:00PM, THE FAT WILL GET TRANSPORTED INTO THE CELLS AND YOU WILL GET FAT. THE WAY AROUND THIS IS TO 1. KEEP DIETARY FAT TO A MINIMUM ALL THE TIME OR 2. USE A FASTER ACTING INSULIN. FOR ME--EVEN THOUGH I ALWAYS EAT LOW AMOUNTS OF FAT PER DAY--THE ANSWER SHOULD BE 2.

THE REASON FOR THIS LIES IN THE FACT THAT YOU CAN CONTROL IT MUCH BETTER IF YOU KNOW THAT IT IS HITTING IN 15-20MINUTES AND WILL BE OUT OF THE SYSTEM IN 4 HOURS OR LESS. ALL OF THE INCIDENTS OF PEOPLE FAINTING OR GOING INTO COMAS BECAUSE OF INSULIN HAS TO DO WITH THE FACT THAT THERE WAS NOT ENOUGH GLUCOSE PRESENT IN THE BLOODSTREAM WHEN THE INSULIN PEAKED. WHEN YOU USE A LONG ACTING INSULIN THAT PEAKS AT VARIOUS TIMES OVER A 24HOUR PERIOD, YOU RUN A MUCH GREATER RISK OF NOT HAVING ENOUGH GLUCOSE PRESENT BECAUSE YOU ARE MORE APT TO SKIP A MEAL OR BE DRIVING IN YOUR CAR WHEN IT HITS...I LIKE THE HUMALOG THE BEST AND WOULD TELL EVERYONE TO USE IT SOLELY OR IF THEY CANNOT GET IT, USE THE R. DO NOT USE THE N!

TREVOR; DOES IT MATTER WHAT TYPES OF CARBS YOU EAT WHEN YOU USE INSULIN?

IFBBPRO: YES! I AM A FIRM BELIEVER THAT YOU SHOULD USE PRIMARILY SIMPLE CARBS.

TREVOR; SIMPLE CARBS?

IFBBPRO: YES. LOOK AT THE END OF THE DAY THE BODY BREAKS DOWN COMPLEX CARBS INTO GLUCOSE AND IT IS GLUCOSE THAT IS TRANSPORTED INTO THE CELLS. WHEN YOU ARE USING A RAPID ACTING INSULIN IT IS IMPORTANT TO MINIMIZE THE TIME IT TAKES THE BODY TO CONVERT CARBS TO SIMPLE SUGARS. WHY CREATE ANOTHER STEP IN THE PROCESS? IT ONLY TAKES MORE TIME AND YOU RUN THE RISK OF NOT HAVING ENOUGH OF THE COMPLEX CARBS BROKEN DOWN INTO GLUCOSE IN TIME WHEN THE INSULIN HITS. FOR THIS REASON I SUGGEST THE USE OF DEXTROSE.

TREVOR; SO WHAT IS THE REGIME YOU WOULD RECOMMEND?

IFBBPRO: WELL I SUGGEST THAT FOR OPTIMAL RESULTS, YOU USE HUMALOG AT 10-15IU'S IMMEDIATELY AFTER TRAINING BECAUSE THAT IS WHEN YOU BODY IS MOST DEPLETED OF GLYCOGEN STORES AND IS PRIMED TO OVERCOMPENSATE FOR THE INFLUX OF NUTRIENTS. NOW HUMALOG HITS IN 5-15MINUTES SO YOU MUST IMMEDIATELY INGEST 10 GRAMS OF SIMPLE CARBS PER EVERY I.U. OF INSULIN YOU USE (IN THIS CASE BETWEEN 100-150 GRAMS) I WOULD ALSO TAKE IN ADDITIONAL NUTRIENTS THAT HELP CONTRIBUTE TO MUSCLE GROWTH SUCH AS AMINO ACIDS OR 50 GRAMS OF WHEY ISOLATE. I WOULD ALSO HAVE 5 GRAMS OF CREATINE AT THIS TIME TO AID IN CELL VOLUMIZING.

THE BEST CASE SCENARIO WOULD BE TO DO THIS TWICE AND DAY AND THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN DO THIS TWICE A DAY IS IF YOU TRAIN TWICE A DAY (THE MORE YOU DEPLETE YOUR GLYCOGEN STORES, THE MORE OF AN OPPORTUNITY YOU HAVE TO USE INSULIN TO OVERCOMPENSATE WITH NUTRIENTS)

TREVOR; WOULD YOU USE INSULIN DURING YOUR CONTEST PREP?

IFBBPRO: ABSOLUTELY I WOULD NOT PREPARE WITHOUT IT. YOU JUST HAVE TO KEEP IN MIND THAT YOU HAVE TO USE IT WHEN YOU CAN IN TERMS OF HIGH CARB AND LOW CARB DAYS WHEN YOU ARE DIETING.

TREVOR; SO LET ME GET THIS STRAIGHT. YOU ARE TELLING ME THAT INSULIN ALONE IS WHAT IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE 20-30LB. JUMP IN LEAN BODY MASS IN ALL THE TOP GUYS?

IFBBPRO: ABSOLUTELY. I GUARANTEE THAT IF A BODYBUILDER IS STAGNANT AND HAS NOT USED INSULIN YET OR USED IT CORRECTLY, HE CAN PUT 20-30LBS OF MUSCLE ON. THERE IS NO DOUBT IN MY MIND. I AM SO SURE OF IT THAT I WOULD BET MY LIFE ON IT. I AM THAT POSITIVE.

TREVOR; ANYTHING ELSE ABOUT INSULIN WE SHOULD KNOW BEFORE WE MOVE ON?

IFBBPRO: YES. WHEN YOU USE IT, YOU WILL FIND THAT YOUR MUSCLES FILL OUT SO MUCH THAT YOU CANNOT USE IT EVERY DAY. I FIND THAT WITH MYSELF I CAN USE IF FOR 2-3 DAYS AND THEN OFF FOR 1-2 DAYS. EVERYONE VARIES, BUT THERE IS A POINT WHEN YOU ARE SO SUPERSATURATED THAT YOU CANNOT GET ANY FULLER. ALSO I WOULD NOT GO OVER 40 I.U.'S OF INSULIN PER DAY DIVIDED INTO 2 20IU SHOTS. JUST SOMETHING TO KEEP IN MIND

Conrad · 07-09-2010, 02:49 AM

Slin is a very powerful product and can lead to serious problems if uses irresponsibly. There are many different protocols for different goals. It is very effective and usefl.

Kristofer68ss · 07-09-2010, 04:40 AM

geat information up in here.

Gravy · 08-09-2010, 07:36 AM

Hey Guys i am new to the site and have a question IGF-1 Lr3 (0.1mg) froms Naps...how many doses is this amount?

heavilyjuiced · 08-29-2010, 05:38 PM

Insulin arises from preproinsuline, synthesized in the endoplasmic reticulum of the beta cell. In the Golgi apparatus preproinsuline split proinsulin and insulin eventually. At the junction of proinsulin occurs alongside a peptide fragment of insulin, C-peptide. The remaining two polypeptides that the insulin molecule, through two sulfur bridges attached to each other. Insulin and C-peptide are stored in granules in beta cells. They are simultaneously secreted by exocytosis along with smaller amounts of proinsulin. The C-peptide will then work with insulin in the bloodstream. At this point to distinguish between the body produce insulin and insulin is injected. In an elevated insulin release because the body will also increase the amount of C-peptide.

The most important factor in the release of insulin, the glucose concentration in the blood. Other stimulating factors are amino acids, fatty acids and the parasympathetic nervous system. When blood sugar rises, glucose within the beta cells through a membrane protein, the glucose transporter GLUT-2. Glucose is metabolized in the normal way (glycolysis and citric acid cycle), leading to the ATP concentration increases in the beta cell. The ATP-ATP-blocking potassium channels, making the cell membrane depolariseert and voltage-gated calcium channels open. The calcium concentration in the cell rises and that means that insulin is delivered.

Insulin lowers the glucose from the blood.

The hormone promotes:

Synthesis of glycogen in muscle and liver
Synthesis of fatty acids
Protein synthesis in muscle tissue o.a.
Transport of glucose across cell membranes, through GLUT-4 in order for the cell metabolism and release the breakdown of fats and prevents glycogen.
Transport of K + into the cells so that the potassium level in blood is reduced.
It regulates together including glucagon and adrenaline in blood sugar. Insulin has an antagonistic effect for glucagon, adrenaline, cortisol and other hormones enhancing glucose.

When no insulin in the body, is called diabetes mellitus type 1.

When enough insulin is made, but insufficient cells respond to insulin, it is called diabetes mellitus type 2.

In the past it was considered biologically inactive C-peptide. Recent studies have shown that it is able to elicit molecular and physiological effects, which in turn points to the fact that C-peptide is a bioactive peptide and necessary.
Medicinal insulin
In 1922 the first diabetic patient treated with external insulin. After it was discovered that diabetes can be treated by administration of insulin was a need for artificially producing insulin. The first sources of insulin were medicated cows, horses and pigs. The insulin produced by the pancreas of these animals is virtually identical to human insulin, and has the same effect in humans, although some allergic reactions by-products formed.

Today, animal insulin no longer used. In 1982, Eli Lilly is the first synthetic human insulin in the market (Humulin, developed by Genentech). Synthetic human insulin is produced using recombinant DNA technology. It is human DNA inserted into an E. coli host cell. When these host cells then reproduce and grow, they produce a synthetic version of human insulin. This synthetic insulin is not exactly equal to natural human insulin.

In the 90s, they develop insulin analogues. These are based on (synthetic) human insulin, but they were revised to a shorter and faster operation or even a longer effect. Eli Lilly in 1996, brings with insulin lispro (brand name Humalog), the first insulin analogue market [1].

Actrapid (Novolin in the U.S., Canada, Japan and China) is a short-acting insulin solution for injection. Actrapid is produced and marketed by Novo Nordisk since 2002. The active substance is human insulin produced by recombinant DNA technology. Actrapid (approximately half hour) for all meals, and is used in combination with a long-acting insulin like Lantus or Levemir.

The same manufacturer will now also NovoRapid in the market, that ultra-short acting and are widely used in insulin pumps. The combination of ultra short-acting insulin and one dose over time is a better approximation of how the human body's insulin itself "doses" so that the blood sugars are better controlled.

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