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Originally posted by RonnyT
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Thanks RT. Good info. -
volume concentration viscosity chemical art
Volume and Concentration
Steroids come in all shapes and sizes. In other words, you can find nandrolone (or Testosterone or boldenone) esters in 25 mg/ml, 50 mg/ml, 100 mg/ml, 200 mg/ml and so forth. Is a 400 mg injection using two milliliters of a 200 mg/ml oily solution the same as using four milliliters of a 100 mg/ml solution? After all, the net amount is still 400 mg, right? Unfortunately, this isn?t the case.
Steroid concentration in the solution greatly affects the dynamics and kinetics. In this study, some of the men received a 100 mg/ml injection of nandrolone decanoate and other men received a 100 mg injection using a 25 mg/ml solution (which means they received four milliliters, of course). Those that received the 100 mg/ml injection reached significantly higher (between 30% and 50%) plasma levels of nandrolone than those who got 100 mg via the 25 mg/ml solution. To top it off, the 100 mg/ml group?s plasma nandrolone level stayed elevated for a little bit longer; however, the length of suppression of endogenous Testosterone was almost identical.
What does this tell us? It tells us that if we want to maximize plasma levels of hormone (and thereby, maximize gains in lean muscle) we want to opt for the most concentrated version of whatever steroid(s) we decide we?re going to use. If we?re using Testosterone, we surely want to use a 200mg/ml enanthate over something like 100mg enanthate. If we?re using nandrolone, we want to use 300mg/ml stuff over 50mg/ml or 100mg/ml nandrolone decanoate made by others.
Injections Sites
Another thing that superficially seems trivial but makes a huge difference in plasma steroid concentrations is where you inject. That?s right, this seems utterly trivial but this study concluded that gluteal injections yielded far superior plasma levels as opposed to injections in the deltoid.
Of all the locations that nandrolone injections were given in this study (100 mg/ml x 1 ml in the glutes, 25 mg/ml x 4 ml in the glutes and 100 mg/ml x 1 ml in the deltoid), the deltoid injections yielded the lowest plasma levels of nandrolone by a huge factor, with peak concentrations being 50% lower than the 100 mg/ml gluteal injection and around 10% lower than the 100 mg/ml x 4ml gluteal injection. Lesson learned here: Only inject in the glutes for maximal steroidal efficacy.
Reference
The Journal of Pharmacology And Experimental Therapeutics, Vol 281, No. 1; 93-102, 1997.
http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/cgi/reprint/281/1/93.pdf
If you watch the disappearence rate of sesame you can think how it will influence quickly diappearing short estrifications like by example propionate.Attached FilesComment
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solvents co-solvents and oils..
From the point of view of their chemical nature, these solvents can be divided into six groups;
1) monohydric alcohols (ethanol)
2) polyhydric alcohols (propylene glycol, butylenes glycol, glycerol)
3) ethers (poluoxuthylene glycols, glycol mono-ethyl ether)
4) esters (methyl or ethyl oleate, benzyl benzoate, isopropyl myristate)
5) amides (N-methylacetamide, dimethylacetamide)
6) vegetable oils (olive oil, peach oil, etc.)
Of all the nonaqueous solvents, vegetable oils, ethyl oleate, propylene glycol, and polyethyleneglycios with molecular weights of 300 and 400 have the greatest practical value. Apart from water vegetable oils are the solvents most frequently used.
In our domestic pharmaceutical chemical factories. Non-drying fatty oils ? peach and olive oils, consisting of mixtures of glycerides of various high-molecular-weight acids ? are used for the production of millions of ampoules with solutions of various hormone preparations, camphor and vitamins. These oils posses a number of disadvantages: they are not very well absorbed and they rapidly become rancid, forming peroxides and aldehydes which may lead tot the inactivation of the active substance. Oily solutions posses a high viscosity (up to 90 cP), in consequence of which their administration and injection is difficult, particularly in the winter period when the preparation must be warmed before injection. For the same long time to be resorbed in the tissues of the organism, forming infiltrations and oleogranulomas. The formation of oleogranulomas leads to a weakening of the resorption properties of the fatty tissues, a change in overall reactivity of the organism, and a local allergic state of the tissues. The presence in the oils of solid glycerides of stearic and palmitic be dissolved only by heating. It must be mentioned that vegetable oils are used mainly for intramuscular injections and fairly rarely for subcutaneous injections.Comment
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So higher concentration produces better results. Which oils have what effect? Like mtc compared to eo or other oils? Does mtc oil release the hormone quicker or slower?Comment
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Great job Ronny. What steps can be taken to avoid the oils becoming stale and rancid? I do believe I have had that happen recently.
Would it help to keep it refrigerated or at least in a cooler place?Comment
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Great posts Ronny.Comment
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Yes , you should store AAS cool in out of light to prevent it from loosing strenghth, low temperature also prevents decomposition etc _ waterbased steoids are even more prone to this. Synthetic oils are better and more constistant, Eo by example only has one fatty acid (C18.1 oleic acid). A lower viscosity gives a greater injectiondepot and allows a quicker disapearence. As discussed here the injectionspot and the doses are important too.
For this reason Geneza uses an (expensive) synthetic oil for its injectables..
In this study: http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/281/6/E1172.full you'll see that a higher dose of testosterone yields better results on muscle mass and the side-effects are (very) low.
...reading back the text I just assumed you all where healty young men ;-)Last edited by RonnyT; 03-20-2011, 09:09 AM.Comment
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promised
I promised that I would post some release rates once in my week-end house.
I made them when working for BodyPage thus they are in the Dutch language.
translation:
Dit zijn de milligrammen testosteron zoals die aan het bloedplasma worden afgestaan in de eerste 24 uur an een eenmalige injectie van Sustanon 250
These are the milligrams of testosterone as released to the blood plasma in the first 24 hours after a single injection of Sustanon 250
halve waardetijd = half life
dag = day
meting 1 = messuring 1Attached FilesLast edited by RonnyT; 03-20-2011, 10:09 AM.Comment
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What about the older guys
As I found out in posting about the subject, we have many older members, just like me.
Thus to balance after ...in healthy young men .. ..now what happens with healthy older men???
Older Men are as Responsive as Young Men to the Anabolic Effects of Graded Doses of Testosterone on the Skeletal Muscle.
Bhasin S, Woodhouse L, Casaburi R, Singh AB, Phong Mac R, Lee M, Yarasheski KE, Sinha-Hikim I, Dzekov C, Dzekov J, Magliano L, Storer TW.
Division of Endocrinology, Metabolism, and Molecular Medicine, Charles R. Drew University of Medicine and Science, Los Angeles, CA 90059; Division of Respiratory Diseases, Pulmonary Physiology, and Critical Care Medicine, Harbor-UCLA Medical Center, Torrance, CA 90502; Laboratory for Exercise Science, El Camino College, Torrance, CA; Division of Endocrinology, Metabolism, & Lipid Research, Washington University School of Medicine, St. Louis, MO 63110 01-1184 Version 3.
Although testosterone levels and muscle mass decline with age, many older men have serum testosterone level in the normal range, leading to speculation whether older men are less sensitive to testosterone. We determined the responsiveness of androgen-dependent outcomes to graded testosterone doses in older men, and compared it to that of young men. The participants in this randomized, double-blind, trial were 60 ambulatory, healthy, older men, 60-75 yr of age, who had normal serum testosterone levels. Their responses to graded doses of testosterone were compared with previous data in 61, 19-35 yr old men. The participants received a long-acting GnRH agonist to suppress endogenous testosterone production and 25, 50, 125, 300, or 600 mg testosterone enanthate weekly for 20 weeks. Fat free (FFM) and fat mass, muscle strength, sexual function, mood, visuospatial cognition, hormone levels, and safety measures were evaluated before, during and after treatment. Of 60 older men who were randomized, 52 completed the study. After adjusting for testosterone dose, changes in serum total testosterone (change -6.8, -1.9, +16.1, +49.5, and +101.9 nmol/L, at 25, 50, 125, 300 at 600 mg*wk(-1), respectively) and hemoglobin (change -3.6, +9.9, +20.9, +12.6, +29.4 g/L at 25, 50, 125, 300, and 600 mg*wk(-1), respectively) levels were dose-related in older men and significantly greater in older men than young men (each P < 0.0001). The changes in FFM (-0.3, +1.7, +4.2, +5.6, +7.3 kg, respectively in five ascending dose groups) and muscle strength in older men were correlated with testosterone dose and concentrations, and were not significantly different in young and older men. Changes in fat mass correlated inversely with testosterone dose (r0.54, P < 0.001) and were significantly different in young and older men (P < 0.0001); young men receiving 25 and 50 mg doses gained more fat mass than older men (P < 0.0001). Sexual function, mood, and visuospatial cognition did not change significantly in either group. Frequency of hematocrit >54%, leg edema, and prostate events was numerically higher in older men than in young men. Conclusion. Older men are as responsive as young men to testosterone's anabolic effects; however, older men have lower testosterone clearance rates, higher increments in hemoglobin, and a higher frequency of adverse effects. Although substantial gains in muscle mass and strength can be realized in older men with supraphysiological testosterone doses, these high doses are associated with high frequency of adverse effects. The best trade-off was achieved with a testosterone dose (125 mg) that was associated with high normal testosterone levels, low frequency of adverse events and significant gains in fat-free mass and muscle strength.Comment
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These studies are very useful and contain outstanding information. However sometimes I wish they would just dumb them down a little so that the average person can understand what they are saying without having to read it several times. Example if 100mg of steriod A is more effective when administered in oil instead of water...then I wish thats how they would say it......just sayinComment
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Ronny thank you - I appreciate it very much. I am not quite there yet - but closer than I want to be.Originally posted by RonnyT View Post
And like Limo - I to have to read it several times. But it is very interesting - and very much appreciated.Comment
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I thought I was the only one [ that had to read it over and over ]Originally posted by limo View PostComment
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thanks for the info, very informative. I never would have thought glute injections were better than site (delt) injections. See you learn something new everyday!Founder of M.A.A.D.
Free Your MindComment
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We all learn every day, there are many studies done now, mostly thanks to us, we didn't believe the initial scaremongering from the whitecoats and used for athletic - performance - cosmetic reasons for anti-aging etc, now the scientist have reasons and funds to perform studies and surveys. Those find their way to the world wide web and we all benefit. Now with an aging population that wants to stay and look young and wants to maintain their libido etc scientists have more reasons ( MENT by example and HRT) just like pharmaceutical companies (see the moneymaker Viagra for pfizer) and what do you think happens if they would find a "cure" for obesitas??
Originally posted by DiscoDino247 View PostComment
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Hopefully with more reputable studies + forums such as JM we can educate more people and start a grassroots campaign to repeal the "Anabolic Steroids Control Act of 1990" + the amendment - "Anabolic Steroid Control Act of 2004". Effective January 20, 2005.
One can only hope
"GYM + JUICE"Comment
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