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  • proviron works more like a steroid where as hcg kicks your natural production on. whats freaking you out about HCG? you not going to desensitize yourself with it unless you use high doses for a long time. HRT drs have guys on 250 2x a wk, on a very regular basis. no problem at all.


    Originally posted by HOOCH256 View Post
    Hey Sam kinda another thought on the low sex drive what are your thoughts about taking proviron during PCT? We both are just a lil freaked out by hcg honestly! Just seems like if not done right you could really mess your self up! Anyways from my reading sounds like proviron taken during PCT sounds like the ticket to help out!

    HOOCH
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    • i would use bacteriostatic water with your HCG. i put it in a vial mixed with 5cc's bac. that way, each cc is 1000iu. its easier for me to break down that way. 1/4cc being 250iu and what i would suggest using 2x a wk. you can mix less bac water and inject less volume if you're comfotable with that. yes, it needs to be kept cold or it will be ruined. you can go to youtube to find videos of people mixing hcg or gh. both are done the same way.

      as far as caber, i would start with .5mg 2x a wk

      be careful with drol. it can kill your hunger. if you find it hard to eat, it'll probably be because of the drol

      Originally posted by EthanWS6 View Post
      Sam! What's up man? I know we've talked a little about this before but I'm still a little confused.

      I'm running a cycle as follows in the Fall:
      1-16 Test E 500mg/wk
      1-15 Deca 300mg/wk
      1-4 anadrol 25 (or 50, not sure yet)mg/wk
      also running caber and adex through the cycle. (advice on caber dosage?)
      and you mentioned that I should consider running Hcg in a small dose to keep from "crashing" when the deca stops. So, my question is this: How exactly do I mix the Hcg, and what dose should I run through the cycle? The product I purchased is "Pregnyl 5000". I bought two amps, both are 5000 iu's. They both came with a 1ml amp of Solvent (NaCl .9%). So how exactly do I go about mixing it and dosing it out? Also, does it need to be refrigerated once mixed?
      Thanks Sam!

      -Ethan
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      • Well i will pick up some HCG then and give it a shot on my next cycle, give it a shot at like 250 2xWK! Thanks sam

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        • Originally posted by sam1976 View Post
          i would use bacteriostatic water with your HCG. i put it in a vial mixed with 5cc's bac. that way, each cc is 1000iu. its easier for me to break down that way. 1/4cc being 250iu and what i would suggest using 2x a wk. you can mix less bac water and inject less volume if you're comfotable with that. yes, it needs to be kept cold or it will be ruined. you can go to youtube to find videos of people mixing hcg or gh. both are done the same way.

          as far as caber, i would start with .5mg 2x a wk

          be careful with drol. it can kill your hunger. if you find it hard to eat, it'll probably be because of the drol
          Ok, thanks for the help Sam! So just don't use the supplied solvent at all then? And is there any special way to mix the powder with the Bac water, or just mix it in the amp and put it into the vial?

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          • Sam,
            When injecting Test Cyp why are some IM and some doing SubQ? Is SubQ less effective?

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            • subq seems to be a new trend. from what i understand, it will not absorb as quickly, as fat has musch worse blood flow than muscle tissue. i would personally only want to subq a small amount at a time, like my budy who is on an hrt dose of 80mg a wk. he does 2 .4cc shots per wk and is fine. the other time i would consider doing subq would be if you're doing every day injects and feel as though you're running out of sites.

              for the average user, who is doing a couple cc's a wk, to a couple cc's EOD, i wouldnt get too concerned about subq. IM has been the tried and true. its consistent. we know what to expect....thats just my opinion though. dont let me stop you if that sounds like something you're interested in exploring
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              • Hey Sam! Reading up on Tren and noticed it does not bother estrogen levels, but is a progesterone antagonist. I understand the mechanics of estrogen and test, but am having a hard time finding literature on the impact of progesterone due to aas. Is that what causes possible lactation? Is it prevented with the same products used to deal with / stop estrogen related effects like arimadex or letrozole?

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                • yes, i've seen lactation with tren. not pretty! i've personally found that as long as i control estrogen with adex, i've had no proges or prolac issues. adex itself will not control gyno related to a 19-nor based steroid like tren. caber dosed at about .5mg 2 to 3 times a wk should do the trick if you had a problem
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                  • I appreciate the advice im sure the answer is already on here somewere but I have never bridged I always do pct and take adiquit time between cycles if I were to run say
                    500 cyp or enan twice wk
                    t-bol 40 ed for 6 wks
                    stan 50 ed for 4wks
                    with aromasin .5 ed for the 10 wks
                    how would I go about bridging into the next cycle how long would I wait what would I use.

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                    • Hey, quick question. Have you ever ran tbol or an oral on a low dose for an entire cycle? I was thinking tbol at 20mg for 12 weeks w/ test. would the long running at a short dose produce a more potent effect in the end?

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                      • i'd use a higher end replacement dose of test. somewhere around 200mg every wk or 10 days. i dont have experience dosing aromasin for hrt, but in terms of adex, i'd probably add about .5mg 2x wk. before you go back on, your best bet would be to run labs. it'll take a little while for cholesterol to return to normal. i've found 4-6 wks, after running winny. its hard to say how long i'd cruise. i guess it would depend on how life lined up for me. if i were to throw out a number, 10 wks. seems like enough time to get ready to grow again. i know that i can only put on so much size at once. just remember that once you start cruising, you're not really going off. the longer you go, the harder it'll be to recover.

                        Originally posted by bigmurph View Post
                        I appreciate the advice im sure the answer is already on here somewere but I have never bridged I always do pct and take adiquit time between cycles if I were to run say
                        500 cyp or enan twice wk
                        t-bol 40 ed for 6 wks
                        stan 50 ed for 4wks
                        with aromasin .5 ed for the 10 wks
                        how would I go about bridging into the next cycle how long would I wait what would I use.
                        if you are new to the board, please take a minute to read the rules...CLICK HERE

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                        • Originally posted by Ares View Post
                          Hey, quick question. Have you ever ran tbol or an oral on a low dose for an entire cycle? I was thinking tbol at 20mg for 12 weeks w/ test. would the long running at a short dose produce a more potent effect in the end?
                          realistically, as long as your blood work said that you were healthy, you could run an oral for a year. thing is, i dont think your blood work would remain clear that whole time. most people dont want to invest in their health to find out whats actually going on with their body. the answer to this has been shorter and shorter oral runs. i'm hearing 4 wks for a lot of guys now days. for one cycle, instead of taking 30mg of dbol for 6 wks, i lowered it to 20mg and went for 8wk. i didnt have blood work done till after i came off, some 8 wks later. by that point, nothing was crazy. really though, now days, i'm less and less interested in orals. they are so much harsher on our organs over time. i know of guys who have formed tumors on their livers, believed to be from steroid use. i see older guys having heart problems. could be that they were predisposed. thing is, how do i know i'm not? i want to take the least impact on my body as i can, so if i'm gonna use an oral, its going to be to make a dramatic change quickly and then rely on injects to carry me through the cycle.
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                          • Originally posted by sam1976 View Post
                            realistically, as long as your blood work said that you were healthy, you could run an oral for a year. thing is, i dont think your blood work would remain clear that whole time. most people dont want to invest in their health to find out whats actually going on with their body. the answer to this has been shorter and shorter oral runs. i'm hearing 4 wks for a lot of guys now days. for one cycle, instead of taking 30mg of dbol for 6 wks, i lowered it to 20mg and went for 8wk. i didnt have blood work done till after i came off, some 8 wks later. by that point, nothing was crazy. really though, now days, i'm less and less interested in orals. they are so much harsher on our organs over time. i know of guys who have formed tumors on their livers, believed to be from steroid use. i see older guys having heart problems. could be that they were predisposed. thing is, how do i know i'm not? i want to take the least impact on my body as i can, so if i'm gonna use an oral, its going to be to make a dramatic change quickly and then rely on injects to carry me through the cycle.
                            I gotcha, well Im just considering my options. I think that maybe test e @500 for 12wks and test p for the first 8? that way avoid any orals. I was thinking eq but i want this to be no longer than 12 so i can run one in summer
                            Ares
                            Senior Member
                            Last edited by Ares; 09-30-2012, 05:41 PM.

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                            • Sam!, I talked with you earlier in this thread about a lean bulk cycle i m planning this winter. after much extensive research, I think I may do something like this:

                              Week 1-4 test P 100mg EOD
                              Week 1-16 test E 300mg week
                              Week 1-16 EQ 600 mg week
                              Week 15-20 test P 100 mg EOD
                              Week 15-20 anavar 50 mg ED
                              Adex :0.5 mg E3D or EOD if I need to, I've talked to guys telling me 0.25 E3D is enough....

                              Prop kicker and finisher since EQ results takes forever to kick in. Notice the low test E because Im looking for a LEAN bulk with minimum water retention.
                              My concern with this cycle is that it's gonna take me 20 weeks+3 weeka PCT, so my time off will be at least 23 weeks when I'm done. This means there is no way I can start a cutting cycle this summer (2013), so Im considering another LEAN bulk alternative that doesnt require this long..EQ should be run at least 16-18 weeks for good results as I know... What do you suggest as an alternative shorter lean bulk cycle?

                              I am 31 yo, 180 lbs, bf 13%, now on a high protein low card diet to lower my bf before I start my cycle. This is my diet and would be nice if you tell me what you think:

                              Meal 1: 5 whole eggs and 4egg whites
                              Meal 2: Protein Shake 50g Whey Protein with 1 tbsp of All Natural Peanut butter (no sugar)
                              Meal 3: 8oz chicken with handful of almonds
                              Meal 4: Protein Shake 50g Whey Protein with 1 tbsp of All Natural Peanut butter (no sugar)
                              Meal 5: 8oz Salmon or RED MEAT with a green salad (no tomatoes, carrots, or red peppers) with 1 tablespoon of Olive Oil or Macadamia nut oil and vinegar
                              Meal 6: Protein Shake 50g Whey with 1 tbsp almond butter
                              2 gallons of water a day....no sugar added to anything and no soda/tea/juice

                              My protein intake with this diet is around 325 g or so. high protein so i dont loose muscle mass cuz of the calorie deficit.

                              Thanks bro!

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                              • Hey Sam. Is there any science behind stair stepping PCT's? Like exact dosages? Does it depend on how harsh the substances were?

                                I'm doing oral d-bol for four weeks, and test cyp for 12-15 weeks. Would 100/50/50/25 clomid be a good approach?

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