Frontloading

[xamo Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close xamo]

this still just is bro science? is there any way we could get some hard facts on the subject? Please don't see this as my being an ass, I just wanna know if there's anything actually backing everything up

[ALEX.18 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ALEX.18]

No bro i know your not being an ass. And i hope im not coming off as one either. I deffinately wanna see some hard facts too. I just dont know how to show it without blood work???

[EthanWS6 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close EthanWS6]

Thats correct. Im just playing devils advocate here.
once the half life of the first pin wears off in 7-8 days (half life of test c), you already have 500mg of test running through your veins, not 250mg.

Right, I understand that. You will have more available in your system, but it won't come to you any earlier. That's the only defense I was making haha

this still just is bro science? is there any way we could get some hard facts on the subject? Please don't see this as my being an ass, I just wanna know if there's anything actually backing everything up

Yeah I wish RonnyT or Sam could set us straight on this. The only "evidence" I have on anything I'm saying right now is from Wiki and a couple of friends who are nurses lol.

[ALEX.18 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ALEX.18]

Right, I understand that. You will have more available in your system, but it won't come to you any earlier. That's the only defense I was making haha

No it wont be released any earlier, but the blood levels will be higher sooner. Which seems like it will cause you to feel the effects earlier. Theres a reason you dont pin less than 500mg of test a week, because you wont feel the effects of a low dose. So with having 500mg left over 7 days after a front loading pin instead of 250mg after a normal 500mg pin you have a higher concentration of it in your blood stream quicker. It will still take a week or 2 to be fully available but the blood level concentrations will peak sooner

Its hard to explain how i see it in my head haha

[xamo Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close xamo]

I don't think that's the case, I'm guessing that if people don't usually see any results frm 300mg of test E a week is because it's not that much higher than what they produce naturally, I'm guessing they wouldn't see any better results from pinning 100mg of prop 3 times a week either... 500mg seems the baseline if you want to start a little higher than your natural test? I really don't know how it all works... imo if you put in too much your body should react to it and perhaps get rid of it? I don't think it processes it sooner than the ester allows it? This is very technical... would be nice to have a biochem major around...

[ALEX.18 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ALEX.18]

Haha. Lets use test e from now on as a common reference when were talking about half lives to avoid any confusion.

The ester still allows half of the drug to be there in 5 days. I dont think the ester is the main thing affecting this method, it seems like its all about the half life of the drug which i know goes hand in hand with the ester but not in the sense that im trying to explain it in. It seems to be more of HOW MUCH is left to be absorbed into the bloodstream rather than WHEN it gets absorbed into the bloodstream, which would be 5 days.

You guys are making good points and im just trying to validate mine. I think this might be one of the best threads we've had on here in a while

[xamo Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close xamo]

If we take test as our reference then they're all the same... test E, test P, etc.. they're all test with a different ester so release in time... the test is the exact same? WTH I mean..let's just inject pure test without ester... who cares about pinning 2 or 3 times a day anyway?LOL

[sam1976 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close sam1976]

i think that front loading looks better on paper than when applied in the real world. i'm not saying it doesnt work. i just dont think that it is as beneficial as it might seem, when you're doing the math. IME, i have found that front loading test leads to a higher occurrence of negative side effects. the only compound i front load anymore is EQ. it seems like no matter how much EQ i take, i dont experience any immediate negative side effects. i get very very hungry, much quicker than i would have otherwise. when i'm not dieting, i like that! outside of EQ, i think that i get more out of using a faster acting compound, like an oral, to kickstart my long acting gear.

[ALEX.18 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ALEX.18]

If we take test as our reference then they're all the same... test E, test P, etc.. they're all test with a different ester so release in time... the test is the exact same? WTH I mean..let's just inject pure test without ester... who cares about pinning 2 or 3 times a day anyway?LOL

I said test E for the sole purpose of talking about ONE half-life and ONE ester

[ALEX.18 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ALEX.18]

We just need someone to get in here who has front loaded with test results to back up their experiences. If it doesnt happen, i will be a guinae pig and get it done before i start and again after the first week

And just to be clear, im completely neutral on the subject. Im not for it or against it. I just want to know if its a more beneficial to do it this way or not. Like sam said, it does seem like the higher dosage would bring in side effects, but on the other hand, if you have the sides, it must mean the gears doing what its supposed to be doing. At least for me, i kno once i start seeing the oily skin and atrophy which are really the ONLY sides i personally get, i also feel the positive effects so i know the drugs are working.

[EthanWS6 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close EthanWS6]

I would think that front loading test would cause more sides for the fact that blood serum levels spike much higher out of the gate. You also have to take into account that there is only so much that your body can process before you get diminishing returns due to some becoming waste. Idk that your body can process a shot of 500mg+ at a time without a percentage of it just becoming useless.

[ds222 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ds222]

We just need someone to get in here who has front loaded with test results to back up their experiences. If it doesnt happen, i will be a guinae pig and get it done before i start and again after the first week

And just to be clear, im completely neutral on the subject. Im not for it or against it. I just want to know if its a more beneficial to do it this way or not. Like sam said, it does seem like the higher dosage would bring in side effects, but on the other hand, if you have the sides, it must mean the gears doing what its supposed to be doing. At least for me, i kno once i start seeing the oily skin and atrophy which are really the ONLY sides i personally get, i also feel the positive effects so i know the drugs are working.

iv front loaded test twice...both time were a disaster..as Sam stated the sides kick in hard and i got test flu for a much longer time..not to mention the lethargy was terrible..my theory after my experience was that id rather use sustanon the first week or 2 for the initial boost then switch to e or c

[ALEX.18 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ALEX.18]

iv front loaded test twice...both time were a disaster..as Sam stated the sides kick in hard and i got test flu for a much longer time..not to mention the lethargy was terrible..my theory after my experience was that id rather use sustanon the first week or 2 for the initial boost then switch to e or c

Did you get any positive effects any quicker by frontloading?

[xamo Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close xamo]

I said test E for the sole purpose of talking about ONE half-life and ONE ester

The last part was my joking around sorry lol

[RonnyT Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close RonnyT]

frontloading

Like Xamo says its bro-science http://juicedmuscle.com/jmblog/content/frontloading On the other hand some universities have looked into it very deep. In Sweden by example by Susan Wang, very very interesting, but purely scientific. Just as Organon did.

Long ago bodybuilders played with simular ideas, pyramid cycle, running down hill cycle, should ring a bell at the older bb-ers and the ones reading their ass off. Running hill looks like it, first week you pin 3 times 1 gram, next weeks 1 gram a week for 12 weeks. Pyramid is slowly increasing slowly decreasing, some bb-ers had only one week the highest dose others topped the pyramid and used their highest dose for 3 weeks. Many guys prefer their personal cycle and roids. One drinks wine, the other one beer, both can get drunk. Which reminds me happy new year

Frontloading normally happens when start pinning and use orals for the first 6 weeks, other bb-ers start with orals backed with TrenA and/or TestProp eod or ed. Others want Sustanon in their first weeks and pin it with longer estrifications and slowly go to cypionate-Enanthate-decanoate or Undecanoate. I know competing guys that only take the long steady esters (decanoate) in the mass building cycle.

From even more interest is the end of your cycle, when your endogenous test is suppressed due to the shut down of HPT axis and exogenous levels are disapearing. Even PCT is not enough and orals and/or short estered roids also have their use here. Also make sure your nuts don’t shrink to avoid “crashing” which will ruin the most impressive results of your cycle.