1 Year into Bodybuilding - Trying Epistane for injuries

[Arch Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Arch]

Hi Folks I have a few questions for any of you who might have run this stuff before.

I have been having issues with shoulder impingement and my knee has been cracking so bad I couldn't squat - Shoulder impingement probably from sleeping and extreme deadlifting and the knee I have no idea other than maybe I put on too much mass on the wrong side of my legs.

I also MAY have Ehlers-Danlos as I am for sure a celiac. This would make my body attack the collagen in my joins when I eat gluten - which I think is the real reason for the shoulder impingement.

Currently I'm on day 7 of a 20mg per day Epi 2a from Vital Labs and my knee and shoulder were better after day 3. I was able to squat on day 5 and my shoulders feel great.

I plan on running 30 days at 20mg - as I'm sharing this bottle with my dad :P

At these doses - can anyone offer advice for cycle support? I am currently taking multi-vita, msm, glucosamine, chondroitin. I also drink tons of preworkout like neurocore and acg3 so all the pretty vitamins in there.

[MontBlanc Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close MontBlanc]

terrible idea. epistane is IMO an improved winstrol. I say "improved" because it doesnt make my hair shed like winstrol but dont be fooled it will dry your joints, tendons, ligaments just like winstrol. So it would be wise not to run any compounds that put stress on ur joints and tendons.

[sam1976 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close sam1976]

i dont know much about epi but if mont blanc is right, that its a winstrol like drug, it is going to be bad news in the long run for someone in your situation. drugs like anavar, deca and eq will help to repair collagen. these drugs can also mask your injury so you want to know what you're dealing with and not just heavy simply because you're feeling no pain that day.

also, another suggestion, if you arent already taking it. fish oil. around 10 grams a day. it'll help

[Arch Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Arch]

Perfect I really appreciate the response! I am on fish oil - how the hell do you take 10g a day?? i'm on 3g a day and its huge and expensive.

I stopped the epistane and only did a 3 week pulse.

I'm definitely having issues with my knees - and thinking of trying 2 months just light physical therapy as I am already bottom heavy (bigger in the legs)

If this doesn't work I want to run 16 weeks 100mg Deca EW. The Epistane was my first cycle. My issue is I'm not healing very well in the legs - I can tell from the cuts I get that take months to heal when they should take a week or two. This could be due to nutrient deficiency (celiac) and a prior history of kidney trouble. I am getting to the point where I am about to ask a GP Doc for HGH and Deca due to the nut def from celiac and recent history of lack of healing.

Thanks for the info!

[sam1976 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close sam1976]

if you use deca, you want more like 200mg EW and you would want to take some test with it. if not, the deca will shut you down and make you feel awful. really though, it'd be a shame to start your first real cycle when you weren't healthy and able to lift heavy on all your lifts. therapy would be good first.

[Arch Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Arch]

I was thinking I can gain mass on my own - but my injuries are stopping me from really taking advantage of compound exercises.

So my thought was running the low-dose deca + test while doing physical therapy and stretching - then when I'm off just bulk using a great diet and exercise regimen. I don't see the advantage of using AAS for bulk yet at my age of 26 and my dad and grandfather having much larger frames naturally than I have now.

I am going to look more into what you said about anavar and eq and do a pulse of a month or two while literally ONLY stretching. I have a feeling stretching w/ low dose AAS will increase muscle without any lifting.

BTW I tripled my fish oil and notice the cuts I have are healing MUCH faster - great info!

[bigmurph Banned Find all posts View Profile Close bigmurph]

I'm not all that knowledge able like sam he isd the man to listen to but gp makes a pill called mhn i read the profile and it sounds like something you could run at low dose with a little test and it will help your joints im not positive about this i have not taken it but check it out or ask sam about what he thinks i dont want to point you in the wrong direction just trying to help out good luck bro

[Arch Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Arch]

Oh I'm so glad you said that!

I am planning my first order from our sponsor and it was going to include that. I just ran epistane and had NO problems with shut down - could I run this w/out test?

If not - can I use M1T? I had a friend who ran low dose deca w/out test for ACL surgery recovery and he said there was no need for the test.

Being 26 - I can definitely tell my test has not started to drop.

I'm going to order a few of the diff orals GP has available (besides Winny)

[sam1976 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close sam1976]

really bro, you should run test with anything you're using. it doesnt matter how old you are. once exogenous hormones are introduced to your body, your natural production stops. with all due respect, it sounds like you should really step back and start reading and researching exactly how to use these hormones before you dive in. i'd never try to tell you or anyone what to do with you body, but i do my best to try to help guys walk the fine line of being safe while using. these are powerful drugs. different compounds have different side effects. you're going to want to understand what those sides are and how to avoid or combat them. all of these drugs WILL shut your test production down and it is possible to permanently shut yourself down, stopping you from producing test and or having children. know what you're walking into. start at this link. if you have any questions along the way that you cant find an answer to, feel free to post up a thread or ask in my q and a thread. i would also suggest that you read my q and a thread. we've been building that thread and this board as a database for guys just like yourself..

http://juicedmuscle.com/showthread.p...w-steroid-user)

[sam1976 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close sam1976]

the first thing i would suggest looking into is "PCT" post cycle therapy

[Arch Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Arch]

Ok Sam I appreciate the info - I have been reading for about 2-3 months now before running the epistane. I've read over half of your Q+A thread (it's awesome!) I'm a research freak - so here's my situation.

I woke up this morning to swollen knees - first time they have ever been swollen. The right one much more than the left - so I am thinking I have a definite partial tear. I went to the library and got stretching and joint health books. Muscle is very easy for me to grow - joints I'm having troubles with.

For your question about PCT - I have Testrol (But I felt SO good after the epistane, I only took it for a week and am saving it for a stronger cycle where I will really need PCT)
Testrol is a natural alternative to HCG/Clomid (mainly fenugreek and trib)

BUT - After reading about HCG - it stimulates your testes to produce test - but still acts as an exogenous hormone and thus DOES NOT stimulate the HPTA. My experience with psychoactive addictive chemicals (opiates and such) has taught me that the fewer exogenous products the better. With hormones - should I be more worried about keeping steady levels and not having huge fluxuations? I keep reading about a Post-PCT Crash - and am thinking people are putting too much emphasis on PCT.

Furthermore - running test W/ low dose deca compounds the exogenous hormones in my body - thus leading to a quicker shut down. Right?? I have the philosophy that less is more - especially starting at my age with these compounds.

I won't be purchasing an order until tomorrow - and am looking at MHN, M1T, and a few other GP orals. I don't really want to start pinning - but if I have to I will. I can order a few bottles of test as well - the longer esthers but doesn't test inhibit collagen synthesis?

Can you think of a good protocol to heal the body other than anabolically? So would Halo do well since its so andro?

[sam1976 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close sam1976]

hey bro, i was having computer problems last night and now am going out of town for a couple days. i wish i had the time to respond more in depth to everthing here. i will be able to when i get back or hopefully other experienced members can answer this stuff. in short though, you want test in your system. yes test and deca is more hormone than deca alone but it doesnt matter. one or both, you will be shut down. you need to take test with any other steroid. our body only produces what, 7mg of test a day? you inject a lot more steroid than that! and yes, hcg would keep you shut down if you kept running it. you want to come off hcg when you are ready to start PCT and recover but it will get the process started. it will jump start natural production with the hope that you continue to produce after you stop using it. you need to use real pharmaceutical nolvadex or clomid to block estrogen from the receptors to trick your body into pumping out test.

outside of anavar, none of the other oral compounds are going to help you with your plan of rehab. and yes, test will inhibit collagen, but you need it in order to feel ok. trust me, if you feel shut down, you feel like crap, dont want to eat, feel weak and dont want to lift, your sex drive dies with your ability to preform. not good stuff. combined with eq or deca, you will still be doing more good than harm when it comes to collagen, from what i understand and from what i've seen with people rehabbing injuries

[sam1976 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close sam1976]

halo will not increase collagen production from what i understand