Stand-alone Start-up

[atavist Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close atavist]

Hi guys, I'm new to the site, but have been lifting for about 10 years... I've used lots of OTC AIs and Andro product over the years but have never had the money till recently to seriously look at investing in gear and HGH...

Stats:
Currently 30, 6'2" 210, 15% bf, 46chest, 16 arms, 36 waist... long way to go I know.... give me a break I've been sailing the med and caribean for the last 2 years and haven't done a lick of cardio... my routine has been nothing but intense calisthetics
Workout for the last two years has been:
EOD, 10 x circuit of:
10 pullups, 20 pushups, 10 dips, 10 bodywieght squats...

Now that I'm getting off the boat and will have some stability and a good income I am looking to start out with a 6 week no sups, clean diet, lots of cardio back to weights routine to get my body to a better starting point and get in a good routine...

... then.
I plan on starting up a 6 month 4iu/day, 2 on 1 off, 3 on 1 off HGH routine...

... then.
a couple months in, once I've started to see the distinct affects of the HGH I want to add in a standalone injectible... I'm new to gear but have done lots of reading... for some reason I keep coming back to GP Bold/EQ 200, something along the lines of a 300mg/week x 20 week cycle.... it just seems to fit my desires, steady gains with minimum androgenic sides...

... followed of course by a 20mg GP Nolva/50mg GP Clomiphene PC

Thoughts? suggestions?... all input much appreciated.

[wiley79 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close wiley79]

I personally think its way to much for a cycle after 2 years of not being in the gym. I know you dont want to hear it. I would recommend test cycle, maybe throw an oral on it for kicks at the beginning, some ai throughout for gyno, I'm a big fan of clomid for PCT, nolva on hand wouldn't be bad either.

[atavist Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close atavist]

could you illucidate on what you mean by "too much"? I would have thought going with HGH to literally build some new muscle and then a long cycle with a slow gainer like bold to solidify those gains would be "less" than doing a fast hitting test and oral cycle?

thanks for the response.

[sam1976 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close sam1976]

like most of the suggestions you'll get, i believe that test should be the base of any AAS cycle. using a lower dose, somewhere around 500mg, androgenic side effects won't be a major issue for most people and most side effects that can arise from using test can be controlled using an ancillary like adex anyway. 10 to 12 wks would be a good lenth of time to run test e or test c.

by the way, just so you know for the future, 300mg of EQ will do next to nothing. IMO, 600mg would be a better place to start, and only while running test too. otherwise, you'll suffer major issues when your natual test shuts down

[sam1976 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close sam1976]

could you illucidate on what you mean by "too much"? I would have thought going with HGH to literally build some new muscle and then a long cycle with a slow gainer like bold to solidify those gains would be "less" than doing a fast hitting test and oral cycle?

thanks for the response.

i dont think it would be to much. i think it would be not enough and too long. you would be shut down for 20 wks, which would make it harder to recover from, and at that dose, you really wouldn't get much benefit.

[atavist Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close atavist]

thanks for the clarification Sam... that makes sense...

I'm not in a huge rush. Really just want to put on about 10 - 15 lbs of muscle and get down to 10-12% bf....

So do you think I should run the whole GH cycle, get all the goodness out of it then do the test to get the new muscle up to size or would you stack the two? I.E. Is the synergy of the two together better than the two in sequence? or does it really matter?

[sam1976 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close sam1976]

i'll tell you what, hgh doesn't do nearly as much as AAS, especially on a cost to benefit ratio. if you have an ample amount of cash, and it wouldn't limit you in some other way, then go for it, but don't alter your lifestyle on a first cycle in order to run gh. just be aware that at 4iu, the most you'll get outside of general health benefits, is fat loss. it won't help a lot with new muscle growth, IMO. for muscle growth, i've seen guys running more like 8 to 20 iu's, which can come with it's own set of risks, IMO. you'll get so much benefit out of a low to moderate dose of test that you really won't need much else for now. just remember that how your gains look will depend on your diet.

[atavist Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close atavist]

Thanks for the advice... I'll probably still run the GH just for the health benifits... i've got some old nagging injuries from the military that I'd like to see heal up properly and hope the GH will help... ...

... may also consider upping the GH dose as time goes by and I get comfortable with it's effects... or frustrated with the lack there of...

... and will probably go:

Weeks 1-10: 500mg GP Test Enath250 ( 1ml Twice per week)
Weeks 1-13: 0.5mg GP Anastrozole per day
(+ nolva on hand of course)

for a second (later) cycle I'll most likely look at one of Naps' Basic Stacks

I really do appreciate all the help.

[Gawd Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Gawd]

HGH costs a fortune bro. And it's effects wont kick in for 4 - 6 months.. meaning you'll likely want to run it past 6 months.
Look into peptides. People are getting the same benefits in a shorter time for much less cost.
I've been looking into GHRP-6 + CJC-1295 w/ DAC, which seems to be a phenomenal peptide stack.

[sam1976 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close sam1976]

atavist, sounds like a good plan. thats a little much adex than needed though. you still want a healthy amount of estrogen and i'm afraid you'd kill it at .5ED. iestrogen necessary to grow. if you wipe it out, your cycle and sex drive can drastically be effected. if i were cutting, i would probably use a dose like you've outlined, but only near the end when i was really trying to dry out. for a bulking program, i might start with .5E3D and if you need more, move it to .5mg EOD. at 500mg of test, you shouldn't need any more than that.

HGH costs a fortune bro. And it's effects wont kick in for 4 - 6 months.. meaning you'll likely want to run it past 6 months.
Look into peptides. People are getting the same benefits in a shorter time for much less cost.
I've been looking into GHRP-6 + CJC-1295 w/ DAC, which seems to be a phenomenal peptide stack.

if you do something like that, let me know. i know very little about peptides outside of igf, slin and gh. thanks!

[atavist Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close atavist]

HGH costs a fortune bro. And it's effects wont kick in for 4 - 6 months.. meaning you'll likely want to run it past 6 months.
Look into peptides. People are getting the same benefits in a shorter time for much less cost.
I've been looking into GHRP-6 + CJC-1295 w/ DAC, which seems to be a phenomenal peptide stack.

got any good references on peptides.... I'm open minded.

[atavist Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close atavist]

atavist, sounds like a good plan. thats a little much adex than needed though. you still want a healthy amount of estrogen and i'm afraid you'd kill it at .5ED. iestrogen necessary to grow. if you wipe it out, your cycle and sex drive can drastically be effected. if i were cutting, i would probably use a dose like you've outlined, but only near the end when i was really trying to dry out. for a bulking program, i might start with .5E3D and if you need more, move it to .5mg EOD. at 500mg of test, you shouldn't need any more than that.
if you do something like that, let me know. i know very little about peptides outside of igf, slin and gh. thanks!

will do on both counts... thanks again.

[strategic Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close strategic]

Hi Gawd,

Why would you not create a thread about peptide cycle. I do not know much about it, and I am eager to learn about the benefits of such practice and how to cycle them properly. Can you share your experience? Thanks.

[sam1976 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close sam1976]

propecia sounds like a good plan then. down the road, keep in mind that it won't help on all cycles. in some cases, it can make hair loss worse.

at that dose of test you should still be fine startinig out at e3d on adex. realistically, you probablly could get away without running it at all. i suggest it mainly as a preventative and as a way to keep estrogen in your control. still, you should have nolvadex for your pct and if you noticed signs that gyno was still coming on, you could take nolvadex for a short time while you up the adex to stop new estrogen from forming.

[atavist Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close atavist]

darn... tried to get rid of that question before you saw it... have been doing some more reading and from what I'm getting taking propecia is only going to aggrevate gyno, and reduce gains... if I'm going to go bald test might speed it up but it's still inevitable... might as well let it run...

but again, thanks for the good gouge.