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I have some joint pain and have been told to try deca... I would like to compete thus I don't really want to use Deca b.c of detection time... but I hear that NPP is faster yet yeilds less results.. while my main goal is size size size, I could do without extra water as I will be using Dbol and Test E extra water isn't key to me just muscle... so what would be my best option?
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npp is just a shorter ester i loved it.. used it with prop shot eod.. it is solid stuff.. i really dont notice anythign in my joints.... I also didnt think it shut me down as much as deca which i thought it would.. i was on it for i think 8 weeks maybe .... its all good u gain the water weight when your other meds are loading but if u take npp it will act quicker.. and throughout the cycle the swole will go down -
I really just want deca for joint pain was hoping that NPP would assist... well and gains would be great as I wanna break 200lbsComment
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Nandrolone Phenylpropionate
Libriol and Tribolan are trade names for Nandrolone Phenylpropionate, another exotic anabolic preparation coming out of an Australian company, RWR, which is shrouded in mystery. Anabolic NA is Syd Group's entry into this bizarre combination of steroids. They all seem to be of popular demand in bodybuilding circles primarily because of this mystique. I will look at the pros and cons of this obscure drug, Nandrolone Phenylpropionate, and if it qualifies to be in the muscle building, fat-melting cycles of our future.
Libriol is an injectable veterinary product containing short esters of the drugs nandrolone and methandriol. Anabolic NA has the rare Nandrolone Cypionate, and Tribolan contains the very long estered Nandrolone Decanoate. Steroid.com members should immediately recognize the first drug, nandrolone. A steroid derived from modifying the testosterone molecule, Nandrolone is one of the most popular drugs in the world and with good reason; it is a versatile steroid that can be used in "bulking" or "cutting" cycles. Nandrolone has many benefits for athletes coupled with an unbeaten safety record. It has an anabolic (muscle building) rating of 125, making it an excellent drug for adding lean muscle. Neither is it very androgenic (leading to the development of male characteristics), with an androgenic ratio of only 37. Nandrolone aids the hardcore athlete in various ways: it promotes nitrogen retention in the muscle cell (1), which in turn promotes the muscle cell to synthesize and store more protein; it increases levels of the highly anabolic hormone IGF-1 in muscle tissue (2); and it leads to a significant increase in the amount of androgen receptors in muscle (3). Nandrolone has been proven to improve endurance (4), increase the number of red blood cells (5) and speed the rate of glycogen replenishment after strenuous physical activity (6). One trait Steroid.com members love about nandrolone is its ability to reduce joint pain and soreness (7)this is because the drug increases the rate of collagen synthesis and increase bone mineral content (8)(9). Shown to be a good drug for fat loss (10), nandrolone can reduce the amount of fat under the skin and around the abdominal area (10). The amount lost, however, is dependant on dose, with higher dosages having the greatest overall effect (11). Nandrolone also has positive effects on the brain. It increases chemicals in the brain that promote aggressive behavior, which can improve both speed and power (12). Nandrolone aromatizes (convents to estrogen) slightly, but only at about 20% the rate of testosterone, so estrogenic side effects such as breast tissue growth in men (gynecomastia), fat gain and water retention are not major issues. Steriod.com members who use nandrolone seldom complain of androgenic side effects such as prostate enlargement, loss of hair and acne. Those who are worried about their cardio vascular health can use nandrolone without fear; studies have shown that it does not negatively affect cholesterol (13). The ester of nandrolone contained in Libriol is the phenylpropionate ester, which provides a rapid, high concentration of hormone in the blood steadily for up to four days.
Nandrolone Phenylpropionate is a good drug, but it is not perfect. With its chemical structure it acts directly on the receptor of the female sex hormone progesterone with a binding rate of 20% of the actual hormone (14). Despite its low aromatizing rate, this can lead to breast growth in gyno-prone individuals. There is no need for panic though, because the drugs letrozole (femera) or fulvestrant can easily combat this (15) reaction. Elevated prolactin levels are also a side effect of nandrolone usage, but there are readily available drugs like bromocriptine and cabergoline that activate the dopamine receptor to lower prolactin levels (5). Shrunken balls (testicular atrophy) may be a problem from elevated prolactin as well; HCG (female hormone that acts like LH when introduced into the male body) used during the cycle can possibly remedy or prevent the condition (16). Probably the worst effect Nandrolone Phenylpropionate has is on natural testosterone production: a single 100mg dose of nandrolone causes complete nullification of testosterone levels, which remained suppressed for a month before returning to normal (see chart). This can cause impotence and loss of sex drive, better known as the dreaded "Deca dick." The best solution to this problem is to always use testosterone with nandrolone.
The second drug in these combination steroids is methylandrostenediol dipropionate. It is a very weak steroid with an anabolic/androgenic ratio of 30-60/20-60. No large amount of strength or muscle gain should be credited to methandriol, but it does have a few benefits that are worth mentioning. Studies show the parent hormone 5AD to promote a favorable immune system (17). This would probably prevent those who are over-trained from getting sick. Methandriol also has a binding affinity to the sites of the muscle destroying (catabolic) glucocorticoid hormones (18)blocking them from doing harm, which makes methandriol anti-catabolic. Most other profiles would tell you that methandriol somehow amplifies the muscle building potential of other steroids by "unblocking" the androgen receptor and for this reason it should be stacked with other anabolics. This statement is total garbage and should be disregarded by all Steroid.com members. Androgen receptors do not become "blocked" or "clogged up"; secondly, androgens themselves increase the numbers of androgen receptors (3), so methandriol would not be needed to do this.
So far the news on methandriol does not look good but wait, it gets worse. Methandriol's parent hormone 5AD has been shown to be a steroid with "potent estrogenic properties" (19). Since methandriol is more potent than 5AD, its estrogenic effects should cause any Steroid.com member using it grave concern. Excessive estrogenic activity can lead to gynecomastia, fat gain, water retention, loss of sex drive, and sluggish natural testosterone production. The bad news does not end there; methandriol itself binds to the estrogen receptor, needing no chemical change to exert its nasty side effects. Estrogen combined with an androgen promotes weight gain in animals better than either alone (20) however, and this is the real reason the highly estrogenic methandriol is added to other steroids, not because it "unblocks" the A.R. The "massive strength gains" allegedly from methandriol use would most likely result from the great deal of water retention inside the muscles, which would rebound when compressed during the lowering of a weight, similar to the action of a benching shirt. In addition, methandriol has also been shown to increase blood pressure (21). In fact, the only good thing about methandriol would be that it has not been shown to affect lipids, so clogged up blood vessels would be one of many sides you would not have to worry about on it. Methandriol carries di-propionate esters which are actually two propionate esters attached to the hormone.
So how could you use them in a cycle? Let's take Libriol as an example; your first problem would be the weak concentrations of hormone per ml, with 30 mg of nandrolone phenylpropionate and 40 mg of methandriol dipropionate per ml to get the recommended 400-600mg of nandrolone per week. This would mean injecting 14-20 cc per week. Adding the other injectables recommended will amount in a good deal of injection volume. This would also give you a whopping 560-800mg of the highly estrogenic methandriol. You face the same problem with Tribolan, since it contains 40mgs of MAD and 35 of nandrolone decanoate. Anabolic NA is not much better, having only 45mgs of MAD and 30mgs of Nandrolone Cypionate Per ml. If you are determined (or stupid) enough to use Libriol (or any of these combination compounds), stacking it with testosterone propionate and the anti-estrogen letrozole would be the best course of action to control the massive amount of bloat to follow. I think you'll be using about a bottle (10mls) every week if you want a real anabolic effect from Nandrolone/Methandriol. I strongly advise against using them with highly aromatizing drugs like dianabol and anadrol, and with longer acting testosterone like enanthate or cypionate. I fear the sides would be too much for the average athlete. To be honest, I would not touch Libriol with a ten-foot pole.
(Methandriol Dipropionate)
Nandrolone phenylpropionate + Methylandrostenediol Dipropionate (methandriol) blend (Trade name: Libriol, Tribolin, and Anabolic NA)
Nandrolone base + phenylpropionate ester (or Decanoate or Cypionate ester, respectively)
Formula (base): C18 H26 O2
Formula (ester): C9 H10 O2
Molecular Weight(base):274.4022
Melting Point (base): 122-124C
Manufacturer: RWR
Effective Dose (Men): 200-600mgs/week (2mg/lb of Bodyweight)
Effective Dose (Women): 50-100mgs/week
Active life: 15 days
Detection Time: Up to 18 months
Anabolic/Androgenic ratio: 125:37
Methylandrostenediol dipropionate
Formula: C20 H32 O2
Molecular Weight: 304.4716
Molecular Weight (base): 304.4716
Molecular Weight (ester): 74.0792
Formula (base): C20 H32 O2
Formula (ester): C3 H6 O2
Melting Point (ester):21.5C
Manufacturer: RWR
Effective Dose (Men):350mg week.
Effective Dose (Women): 25mg per day.
Active life: 3 days
Detection Time: 2 weeks
Anabolic/Androgenic ratio: 30-60/20-60NO ONE SHOULD DIE IN CHAINS!!!Comment
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Deca just as good, yes you get water retention, just UP the cardio!Cr?z?Comment
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...yes. and keep your diet consistent and clean.Originally posted by cruzi View Post
as far as detection times go, deca is like what, around 1 1/2 years? vs NPP which is more like 1 year? if you're a tested athlete, be it 12 months or 16 or 18, you'd wanna stay away from any form of nandralone. these things wont show up on a pre-employment drug screen or a court ordered test for recreational drugs, so if thats the concern, you'd be fine. but if you're thinking that you'd like to maintain natural status to compete in a natural BB show, then i would second think using any AAS. if you're going to use, you're no longer natural.if you are new to the board, please take a minute to read the rules...CLICK HEREComment
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I didnt know that when they test for Recs, they're testing for AAS? I thought all courts test for 10panel basic -Is there a new panel screening for all Recs including AAS? hmmm gotta look into that one more. I recently took a test for employment screening and all was for the basic 10panel -my script came back pos however had proof it was a script ... those of you that like ur benzos etc, those show up... and the famous THC, also most newer 10panels from what I know test also for masking agents such as those who like to buy them drinks 24hr ahead of time ... anyhow ,Ill look more on the testing: there is a panel exclusive for AAS, however dont know if its all inclusive now for the basics courts, PO's, and employers use ...Originally posted by sam1976 View PostCr?z?Comment
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i cant believe they are detectable for so long..really just can't get over that.. so what about suspension esters how long would they take to get out.. if a prop ester takes a YEAR ..??Comment
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Last edited by sam1976; 02-25-2012, 07:52 PM.if you are new to the board, please take a minute to read the rules...CLICK HEREComment
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So KIS and just do DecaComment
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Nandrolone Decanoate 17 - 18 Months
Nandrolone Phenylpropionate 11 - 12 Months
Yes your correct... damn I thought NPP would be like 3 months o well... I'm just gonna run deca and not care... besides I'm not sure what kind of shape I'll be in precomp.. and there are a few that don't even test.... I'll take my chances haha besides right now it's all about gains... Thanks much everyoneComment
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Yes in job situation they only test for drugs like crack and mary jane lmbo, but I do compete in powerlifting so they would test for all drugs for performance... but not all my comps give a damn I've used some phs during comps everyone does in the lower level comps... I do wanna compete nationally thou, I'll just do the local, untested and see how it goes... 1 year later kill it at nationals!Comment
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ever use test suspension? if my goal were to gain strength, i would consider drugs like test susp, halo, anadrol. if you joints feel anything like mine, i can see how you would want to use deca. nothing else, including NPP IME, seems to help quite as much. but yea, the otehr compounds i'm mentioning have had me shocked in the gym, at the amount of sheer strength i've gotten from them.Originally posted by joebillings View Postif you are new to the board, please take a minute to read the rules...CLICK HEREComment
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test sus I've read about... I've actually never used gear just phs and designers... Idk if I could injected ED esp considering I've never done it and hear horror stories on test sus pain... Halo and drol also am skeptical on since I don't know how I'd react mentally since I've heard of roid rage on them in general compared to anything else. May I ask what kind of gains you saw very interested bro.... I'm really going for size right now to make the next class... then strength... perfer the combo but no good to me if I don't reach weight you know....Comment
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Agovirin DepotOriginally posted by sam1976 View Post
(Testosterone Isobutyrate)
Agovirin Description:
Agovirin Depot, a.k.a. testosterone isobutyrate, is testosterone in a water-based suspension (with no ester added to it) so its relatively fast acting more on this later. Like all forms of the androgen testosterone, Agovirin Depot possesses an anabolic/androgenic ratio of 1:1 (specifically 100:100) meaning it is exactly as anabolic (muscle building) as it is androgenic (impacting male sex characteristics). Because of this perfectly even ratio, testosterone is the gold standard, i.e. the mark by which all other steroids and their respective properties are measured. Testosterone is commonly used by both athletes and bodybuilders alike, primarily because its a very effective muscle building & strength developing, inexpensive, readily available, fat reducing androgen. Most testosterones contain esters, for example, the enanthate ester (a long one) was developed to increase the time released duration of testosterone thereby reducing the frequency of injections for hormone therapy patients permitting for monthly shots. Conversely, the propionate ester (a short one) requires more frequent daily or every other day dosing. Depending on the release speed of the ester being administered, bodybuilders will increase or decrease their dosages and frequency of shots to best accommodate the properties of particular esters in order to keep their blood concentrations level. Hybrid ester blends like Sustanon, Omnadren and others, are best administered frequently earlier in your cycle (like a short ester) to benefit from the short esters rapid results, and less frequently later (like a long ester) once the long esters have accumulated within your bloodstream, i.e. kicked in. By maintaining even testosterone blood serum levels you can more effectively stave off many of the negative side effects associated with high and low alternating blood serum concentrations.
Although Agovirin Depot is similar to testosterone suspension in that it lacks an ester, the pharmacokinetics of these two drugs are very different. Suspension has nothing to slow its release into the bloodstream, and must therefore be shot daily or twice daily for optimal results. Agovirin Depot contains a microcrystalline additive which basically mimics ester effects. The crystals have very low water solubility, which effectively delays the release of free testosterone into the bloodstream. Consequently, Agovirin Depots release is slower than testosterone suspension and propionate, yet slightly faster than testosterone cypionate and enanthate.
Agovirin Steroid Form:
Agovirin Depot is most often boxed (5 ampules per box) and packaged in 2 ml ampules, each containing 25 mg/ml of testosterone mixed in a water-based crystalline solution. Since Agovirin Depot is water-based, the steroid (oil) and water will naturally separate when left sitting and requires shaking in order to re-suspend the drug within the water for accurate dosing.
Agovirin Indications/Purpose:
For bodybuilding and athletic purposes testosterone induces substantial increases in bodily shape and size, largely due to its ability to increase your number of muscle fibers. Androgens like testosterone also protect your hard earned muscle from the catabolic (muscle wasting) glucocorticoid hormones, by inhibiting their ability to send a message to muscle cells to release stored protein. Additionally, testosterone signals muscle cells to store more contractile protein (called actin and myosin) effectively countering the glucocorticoid hormones opposite release protein message. Furthermore, testosterone has the ability to increase erythropoiesis (red blood cell production) within your kidneys, and a higher red blood cell (RBC) count may improve endurance via better oxygenated blood. The presence of more RBCs has also been shown to improve recovery from strenuous physical activity.
All of these great benefits are to be had with the use of testosterone alone, but it can also be the foundation of a cycle containing one or more other drugs, commonly known as a stack. Realistically, every cycle should contain testosterone because of its importance to stabilizing numerous bodily factors during steroid usage which suppresses or completely shuts down natural testosterone production. Go back and read that sentence again because its very important to remember, and many steroid cyclists have experienced unnecessary complications (sexual and otherwise) due to the absence of testosterone. A novice dose of testosterone, i.e. someone on their first or second cycle of AAS, would be in the 250-500 mgs per week range. However, it is not recommended that you take much less than 400 mgs of testosterone per cycle, beginner or not, because its results are dose dependent. That is to say, the more you use the better your results.
Those who are bulking typically choose to stack testosterone with Deca-Durabolin, Equipoise, Dianabol or other steroids that lend themselves well to gaining mass. Other steroids are more cutting/definition-oriented such as Equipoise (which is versatile enough for both purposes), Trenbolone, Anavar, Winstrol and the like. Conventional wisdom holds that the testosterone amount of any such cycle should be equal to or greater than any other injectable drug(s) portion (on a mg basis), and although less is possible, this is a very sound guideline. Agovirin Depot users should inject twice weekly (as with long esters), which is often enough to keep blood serum levels well above baseline with this particular drug.
Agovirin Side Effects:
There are hosts of possibly nasty, clinically-cited side effects for testosterone usage, many of which are greatly exaggerated by the media. However, the otherwise healthy bodybuilder has much less to worry about regarding side effects. As with any form of anabolic steroids, testosterone can possibly cause side effects which fall into two primary categories, estrogenic and androgenic. Estrogenic side effects (those due to increases in estrogen estradiol, prolactin, progesterone or progestin) are dose dependent, aromatization incited, and generally include increased water retention, body fat gain, and gynecomastia (which is actually due to the testosterone and estrogen ratio imbalance). Low to moderate doses of aromatase inhibitors like Arimidex and Letrozole are most often used to efficiently reduce estrogen and its accompanying side effects while on cycle, because they have less of a negative impact on your cycle gains. The more popular off cycle estrogen combatants include the synthetic estrogens Tamoxifen (Nolvadex) and Clomiphene Citrate (Clomid), two drugs that effectively block estrogens absorption because they are preferred by the estrogen receptors. Androgenic side effects, those having to do with male sexual characteristics, occur due to elevated testosterone levels which are likely to produce oily skin, acne, body/facial hair growth, and testicular atrophy (temporary reduction in the size of your testicles). Androgen drug use of any kind is also known to accelerate balding, but only in men with a genetic predisposition for hair loss. In other words, if youre losing or going to lose your hair then testosterone supplementation can speed up the process, but it is never the primary cause of hair loss.
Synthetic testosterone and several other steroids, including nandrolones will shut down natural production altogether. A mere 100 mgs per week of either of these takes about 5-6 weeks to cause this shut down, 250-500 mgs shuts you down by the second week, and it takes roughly a month to return those testosterone levels to baseline.
Agovirin Additional Information:
Agovirin Depot has a rather unique design which differs from traditional testosterone with oil-based esters. In short, once the microcrystalline suspension is intramuscularly injected, the crystals form a repository/deposit (a lot like regular testosterone) within the muscle where they slowly dissolve/release into the bloodstream. However, due to the crystals, this solution is a lot denser or bulkier so to speak, requiring extra slow injection. The manufacturer actually recommended using a larger (up to 21 gauge) needle which would be extremely painful causing redness, and general irritation. Obviously using a slower more steady injection rate with a traditional injection size needle (23 or 25 gauge) would be preferable.
Agovirin Chemical Composition
Testosterone base + Enanthate Ester
Molecular Weight: 358.51
Formula (base): C23H34O3
Melting Point (base): 155
Manufacturer: Various
Effective Dose (Men): 300-2000 mg+/week
Effective Dose (Women): Not recommended
Half-Life: 15 Days
Detection Time: 3 Months
Anabolic/Androgenic Ratio: 100/100NO ONE SHOULD DIE IN CHAINS!!!Comment
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