2nd cycle let get your opinion

[nart23 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close nart23]

Sorry i meant let me get your opinion.
So this is what i have planned out.

Weeks 1-2 Test 500 ( 250 monday,250 thursday)
Weeks 3-14 Test 500 ( 250 monday,250 thursday) and deca 400ml monday
Weeks 15-16 Test 500 ( 250 monday,250 thursday)
Weeks 12-16 30mg anavar every day

Im using norma,aburaihan,organon hcg,gp dex and nolva,i also have clomid on hand

Through out the cycle Im going to use
750 iu hcg every week
1g arimidex e3d
20mg nolva everyday throughout the cycle


I need help with pct tho because i dont really know how to set it up for this cycle.
Will I need a long pct because Im using those compounds during the cycle.

[PushinWeight Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close PushinWeight]

nolva reduces the effectiveness of arimidex, if running nolva aromasin is a must

[nart23 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close nart23]

nolva reduces the effectiveness of arimidex, if running nolva aromasin is a must

so whats better arimidex alone, or nolva and aromasin?

[PushinWeight Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close PushinWeight]

for what? ive never ran nolva during cycle, i dont understand why everyone does that

[Dbolli Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Dbolli]

Forget your cycle. Look at that ass! No but really, Cycle looks good. Arimidex would be better by itself. Save nolva for PCT

[little one Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close little one]

I'm with Pushin and Dbolli. I dont get running Novla during cycle I've only used it for PCT. I run arimidex .5 tues, thurs, sat during cycle.

[Cage fighter Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Cage fighter]

I think you have to run anavar longer than4 weeks and at 80-100 mgs a day to work bro

[PushinWeight Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close PushinWeight]

so whats better arimidex alone, or nolva and aromasin?

i feel like im spamming the threads with this study, but its a great read and explains alot about pct

ublication Date: November 11, 2005 Discussion of pharmaceutical agents below is presented for information only. Nothing here is meant to take the place of advice from a licensed health care practitioner. Consult a physician before taking any medication.
Aromasin (Exemestane) is one of those weird compounds that nobody really knows what to do with. What we generally hear about it makes it very uninteresting…It’s a third generation Aromatase Inhibitor (AI) just like Arimidex (Anastrozole) and Femera (Letrozole). Both of those two drugs are very efficient at stopping the conversion of androgens into estrogen, and since we have them, why bother with Aromasin? It’s a little harder to get than the other two commonly used aromatase inhibitors, because it’s not in high demand, and there’s never been a readily apparent advantage to using it. And I mean…lets face it: It’s awkward-sounding. Aromasin doesn’t have much of a ring to it, and exemestane is even worse. Arimidex has a bunch of cool abbreviations ("A-dex" or just ‘dex) and even Letrozole is just "Letro" to most people. Where’s the cool nickname for
Aromasin/exemestane? A-Sin? E-Stane? It just doesn’t work. It’s the black sheep of AIs. And why do we even need it when we have Letrozole, which is by far the most efficient AI for stopping aromatization (the process by which your body converts testosterone into estrogen)? Letro can reduce estrogen levels by 98% or greater; clinically a dose as low as 100mcgs has been shown to provide maximum aromatase inhibition (2)!
So why would we need any other AIs? Well, first of all, estrogen is necessary for healthy joints (3) as well as a healthy immune system (4). So getting rid of 98% of the estrogen in your body for an extended period of time may not be the best of ideas. This may be useful on an extreme cutting cycle, leading up to a bodybuilding contest, or if you are particularly prone to gyno, but certainly can’t be used safely for extended periods of time without compromising your joints and immune system.
That leaves us with Arimidex, which isn’t as potent as Letrozole, but at .5mgs/day will still get rid of around half (50%) of the estrogen in your body. Problem solved, right? Use Arimidex on your typical cycles, and if you are very prone to gyno or are getting ready for a contest, use Letro.
But what about Post Cycle Therapy (PCT)?
I think at this point most people are sold on the use of Nolvadex (Tamoxifen Citrate) instead of Clomid for post cycle therapy (PCT), since both compete estrogen at the receptor site, both increase serum test levels, and both drugs may also alter blood lipid profiles favorably (6). But since 20mgs of Tamoxifen is equal to 150mgs of clomid for purposes of testosterone elevation, FSH and LH, but Tamoxifen doesn’t decrease the LH response to LHRH (6) I think most people agree to Nolvadex’s superiority for PCT.
Aromasin with Nolvadex
I’ve always been in favor of using Nolvadex during PCT, along with an AI, because reducing estrogen levels has been positively correlated with an increase in testosterone (7) so in my mind, it’s be beneficial to increase testosterone by as many mechanisms as possible while trying to recover your endogenous testosterone levels after a cycle. SO which AI do we use? Letro or A-dex? Well, why don’t we just keep using whichever one we used during the cycle, and add in some Nolvadex? Unfortunately, Nolvadex will significantly reduce the blood plasma levels of both Letrozole as well as Arimidex (8). So if we choose to use one of them with our Nolvadex on PCT, we’re throwing away a bit of money as the Nolvadex will be reducing their effectiveness.
This, of course, is where Aromasin comes in, at 20-25mgs/day.
Aromasin, at that dose, will raise your testosterone levels by about 60%, and also help out your free to bound testosterone ratio by lowering levels of Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG), by about 20% (12)…SHBG is that nasty enzyme that binds to testosterone and renders it useless for building muscle. But what about using it along with Nolvadex for PCT?
Difference Between Type-I and Type-II Aromatase Inhibitors
To understand why Aromasin may be useful in conjunction with Nolvadex while both Letro and A-dex suffer reduced effectiveness, we’ll need to first understand the differences between a Type-I and Type-II Aromatase Inhibitor. Type I inhibitors (like Aromasin) are actually steroidal compounds, while type II inhibitors (like Letro and A-dex) are non-steroidal drugs. Hence, androgenic side effects are very possible with Type-I AIs, and they should probably be avoided by women. Of course, there are some similarities between the two types of AIs…both type I & type II AIs mimic normal substrates (essentially androgens), allowing them to compete with the substrate for access to the binding site on the aromatase enzyme. After this binding, the next step is where things differ greatly for the two different types of AI’s. In the case of a type-I AI, the noncompetitive inhibitor will bind, and the enzyme initiates a sequence of hydroxylation; this hydroxylation produces an unbreakable covalent bond between the inhibitor and the enzyme protein. Now, enzyme activity is permanently blocked; even if all unattached inhibitor is removed. Aromatase enzyme activity can only be restored by new enzyme synthesis. Now, on the other hand, competitive inhibitors, called type II AI’s, reversibly bind to the active enzyme site, and one of two things can happen: 1.) either no enzyme activity is triggered or 2.) the enzyme is somehow triggered without effect. The type II inhibitor can now actually disassociate from the binding site, eventually allowing renewed competition between the inhibitor and the substrate for binding to the site. This means that the effectiveness of competitive aromatase inhibitors depends on the relative concentrations and affinities of both the inhibitor and the substrate, while this is not so for noncompetitive inhibitors. Aromasin is a type-I inhibitor, meaning that once it has done its job, and deactivated the aromatase enzyme, we don’t need it anymore. Letrozole and Arimidex actually need to remain present to continue their effects. This is possibly why Nolvadex does not alter the pharmacokinetics of Aromasin (11).
Conclusion
Before we close the book on Aromasin, it’s worth noting that you can (and should) still use one of the non-steroidal AIs during your cycle to reduce estrogen, if necessary. When you are ready for PCT, you can then switch over to Aromasin and still experience the full effects of an AI, since there is no cross-over tolerance experienced between steroidal and non-steroidal AIs (9). Since Aromasin is about 65% efficient at suppressing estrogen (10), it’s certainly a very powerful agent, especially considering you won’t experience reduced effectiveness because of your concurrent use of Nolvadex or from any sort of tolerance developed by using other AIs on your cycle(9). There is also a decent amount of preclinical data suggesting that Aromasin has a beneficial effect on bone mineral metabolism that is not seen with non-steroidal agents, and it may also have beneficial effects on lipid metabolism that are not found in the non-steroidal Letro and A-dex (9).
Finally, as we’re going to be using Nolvadex for PCT anyway, and we ought to be using an AI with it for maximum recovery…I think Aromasin- considering it’s compatibility with Nolvadex and beneficial effects on bone mineral content and lipid profile, has finally stopped being the black sheep of AIs and found a home in our cycles.
References:
1.Clin Cancer Res. 2005 Apr 15;11(8):2809-21.
2.2. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1995 Sep;80(9):2658-60.
3.[Clinical aspects of estrogen and bone metabolism] Clin Calcium. 2002 Sep;12(9):1246-51. Japanese.
1.Science, Vol 283, Issue 5406, 1277-1278 , 26 February 1999
2.J Clin Endocrinol Metab 2000 Jul;85(7):2370-7, "Estrogen Suppression in Males"
3.Fertil Steril. 1978 Mar;29(3):320-7
4.J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2004 Mar;89(3):1174-80
5..J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 2001 Dec;79(1-5):85-91.
6.The Oncologist, Vol. 9, No. 2, 126–136, April 2004
7.Zilembo N., Noberasco C., Bajetta E., Martinetti A., Mariani L., Orefici S. Endocrinological and clinical evaluation of exemestane, a new steroidal aromatase inhibitor. Br. J. Cancer, 72: 1007-1012, 1995
8.Clinical Cancer Research Vol. 10, 1943-1948, March 2004
9.The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism Vol. 88, No. 12 5951-5956
Copyright ? 2003 by The Endocrine Society

[ODB Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ODB]

Sorry i meant let me get your opinion.
So this is what i have planned out.

Weeks 1-2 Test 500 ( 250 monday,250 thursday)
Weeks 3-14 Test 500 ( 250 monday,250 thursday) and deca 400ml monday
Weeks 15-16 Test 500 ( 250 monday,250 thursday)
Weeks 12-16 30mg anavar every day

Im using norma,aburaihan,organon hcg,gp dex and nolva,i also have clomid on hand

Through out the cycle Im going to use
750 iu hcg every week
1g arimidex e3d
20mg nolva everyday throughout the cycle


I need help with pct tho because i dont really know how to set it up for this cycle.
Will I need a long pct because Im using those compounds during the cycle.

With running HCG thru cycle PCT should be (should be) easier and need less help -HCG is to keep the boys working. get a blood test week 19or20

[jockstudfl10 Banned Find all posts View Profile Close jockstudfl10]

Split up your deca into two pins. Will keep your levels more balanced.

[nart23 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close nart23]

for what? ive never ran nolva during cycle, i dont understand why everyone does that

Ive just seen people talk about it on boards to prevent gyno

[nart23 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close nart23]

Forget your cycle. Look at that ass! No but really, Cycle looks good. Arimidex would be better by itself. Save nolva for PCT

Nice ass right?lol
I just dont want to shut down my estrogen completely.

I think you have to run anavar longer than4 weeks and at 80-100 mgs a day to work bro

I was thinking of running it just to cut up my gains from the deca.

i feel like im spamming the threads with this study, but its a great read and explains alot about pct

Its a good study pushin weight,it was helpful.
Make a thread for it.
Thanks bro.

With running HCG thru cycle PCT should be (should be) easier and need less help -HCG is to keep the boys working. get a blood test week 19or20

Thanks man,yea getting a blood test will help make the decision.

Split up your deca into two pins. Will keep your levels more balanced.

You think so ?
I thought deca had a very long half life.
Should i take 200 monday 200 thursday?

[unionbrother Banned Find all posts View Profile Close unionbrother]

Don?t waste your time with only 30mg of anavar for only a couple of weeks. You need I higher dosage.

[nart23 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close nart23]

Don’t waste your time with only 30mg of anavar for only a couple of weeks. You need I higher dosage.

Yea thats what cage fighter said.
I think Im going to do what he said and use about 80-100.

[maged Banned Find all posts View Profile Close maged]

IMO this is better:
week 1-16 Test 500/week
week 1-14 Deca 400/week
week 12-16 anavar 30mg/day
week 1-17 1mg a-dex every 3 days
week 10-17 hcg 500-1000iu/week
then pct starts on week 18 with nolva, clomid and zma