cutting problem

[RonnyT Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close RonnyT]

One of our members is a bodybuilder that dedicated his life to bodybuilding. He has has very impressing carreer and won many many worldtitels, from junior to master He joins our forums from Body of Science to JM.

Still with aging our body changes and he shot me a p.m. to brainstorm and to ask about the quality of some UGLabs. I thought this case was interesting for competing bodybuilders amoung us. Thus I´ll post it. If you have input, just post.

k many thanks ronny I am on parabolan XXX , in this moment I have big contest in june and july, but for the first time I have gyno and some water, (i take with proprionate testosterone 300 mg week, and 300 mg week XXX masteron enanthate) I have buy some dostinex and begin today before bed, and I have beginning winstrol tabs 50 mg day with proviron 25 mg day, it is the first time tren make gyno to me, for sure XXX is really good tren it is for this reason I hope.
like every time I am cutting like this but this year water problem and legs no cut (prolactin) your opinion will be good for me, I take also like every time I am cutting captropril for me number one for water and cut my legs, but this year problem, I hope with dostinex in the end of june I will be ready and win the over 50.
thanks for your help

Trenbolone Side Effects

Trenbolone, as previously mentioned, is known for being a ‘harsher’ anabolic steroid in terms of its associated side effects than most compounds in existence. There is some truth to this, yet there are also some extreme exaggerations to this as well. One of the reasons for some misunderstanding on the subject is due to the fact that Trenbolone for the longest time has been regarded as a mystic, mysterious, and ‘scary’ substance that at one time was very poorly understood (and still is). It has already been mentioned that Trenbolone belongs to a sub-class of compounds known as 19-nor compounds, which makes it a Progestin. This same property goes for Trenbolone’s sister compound Nandrolone (aka ‘Deca’). Although Trenbolone and Nandrolone both share similar Progestogenic characteristics (as they are both Progestins), Trenbolone possesses some side effects not seen in Nandrolone or any other anabolic steroid. These side effects that are more or less unique to Trenbolone include: increased perspiration (especially at night when sleeping), moderate to severe sleep disturbances and difficulty sleeping (insomnia), Progesterone-related gynecomastia, and erectile dysfunction. Trenbolone also shares the same common side effects found with every anabolic steroid as well, and these include: endogenous Testosterone suppression, increased sebum secretion (oily skin), body hair growth, potential male pattern baldness, and effects on the body’s lipid profile (cholesterol values).


The Unique Trenbolone Side Effects

The side effects known to be unique to Trenbolone is the most commonly inquired topic concerning side effects from Trenbolone. As such, it will be the primary side effects covered in comparison to the common side effects it possesses in tandem with other anabolic steroids.

Increased perspiration: In common terminology, this is basically increased or excessive sweating. It is well known that Trenbolone has a strong nutrient partitioning effect on the body in addition to its extremely strong androgenic nature, and it is these two effects that can increase the metabolic rate of an individual while using Trenbolone. However, this excessive sweating is more commonly seen (and far more severe) at night, commonly dubbed ‘night sweats’ on Trenbolone. Why this increased perspiration in many people manifests itself when the user is sleeping in bed is largely unknown. This is not really considered a serious or life threatening side effect as much as it is an inconvenient side effect, but one must ensure that if they are losing significant amounts of water through perspiration that they are sure to drink enough water to remain hydrated lest dehydration becomes an issue.

Insomnia and sleep disturbance: A common side effect unique to Trenbolone is that of insomnia (commonly dubbed ‘Trensomnia’) and various sleep disturbances. This is also a side effect that is largely unknown as to its cause or origins, though it is believed that Trenbolone may act on the central nervous system in a unique stimulant manner. The typical experience with ‘Trensomnia’ includes the inability to fall asleep, the inability to feel tired, or consistent restless sleep including tossing and turning throughout the night, and frequent waking up through the night every few hours. There are countless various methods of assisting in sleep induction while using Trenbolone, and can range from Melatonin use to prescription sleeping aids, and even the use of Benadryl as a sleep inducing agent.

Progesterone-related gynecomastia: The issue of gynecomastia, Estrogen, and Progesterone are all extremely complex processes that are not 100% fully understood. The truth of the matter is that Progestins are, in vitro and in theory, supposed to inhibit the production of Prolactin at the pituitary and the brain. However, there is much anecdotal evidence and reports from users that Trenbolone as well as Nandrolone indeed do trigger Prolactin release from the brain. Because Trenbolone itself is a Progestin, it also acts on the Progestin receptors on breast tissue. Prolactin receptors exist on breast tissue as well, and so do Estrogen receptors. This combination of Progesterone, Prolactin, and Estrogen can create a large issue of gynecomastia in a Trenbolone user. Prolactin-related gynecomastia from 19-nor compounds is typically seen in the form of lactating nipples alongside breast tissue formation. One of several (or more than one) methods can be used to combat this issue. The first is through the use of a Prolactin-antagonist drug (also known as Dopamine agonists) such as Cabergoline or Pramipexole. These drugs act on Dopamine receptors in the body, which results in decreased Prolactin levels. The second method is to simply avoid the aromatization of other compounds into Estrogen. For example, if Testosterone is used alongside Trenbolone (and it always should be), it is advisable to keep Testosterone at a low enough dose (TRT doses) so that it will not convert into Estrogen, or if larger doses of Testosterone are to be used then an aromatase inhibitor can be run alongside it. Controlling Estrogen levels should also control Prolactin secretion from the pituitary; however it is important to note there are some users that will not respond in such a manner and will still have Prolactin increases in a low-Estrogen environment. What also occurs is that Trenbolone (or Nandrolone) act upon Progesterone receptors in breast tissue and it is through this process that Estrogen receptor sites become far more sensitive to Estrogen (and vice versa – increased Estrogen can create Prolactin receptors that possess increased sensitivity). As a result, even the most minimal levels of Estrogen or Prolactin can trigger the formation of gynecomastia or lactation. Thus, it is always advised that one run a Prolactin antagonist (such as Cabergoline or Pramipexole) or at the very least keep it on hand while using Trenbolone or any 19-nor compound.

Erectile dysfunction and libido issues: This is colloquially known as ‘Tren-dick’ or ‘Deca-dick’ (in the case of Nandrolone). This traces back to the issue of Prolactin increases in the body. Increased Prolactin levels in the body in men present the issue of erectile dysfunction, decreased libido, anorgasmia (inability to achieve orgasm). Once again, the use of a Prolactin antagonist such as Cabergoline or Pramipexole will eliminate these problems (and even increase libido and sexual performance). The other important aspect to cover is to also ensure the use of Testosterone during Trenbolone cycles. This is due to the fact that Trenbolone is highly suppressive (due to its Progestogenic nature) of endogenous Testosterone production. Without proper physiological levels of Testosterone, various functions in the human body are placed at risk – proper functioning libido being one of them.

[RonnyT Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close RonnyT]

Various Other Side Effects Unique to Trenbolone

‘Tren-cough’: This is the colloquial name known for the situation whereby a user experiences a coughing fit during or immediately following an injection ranging anywhere from mild to severe coughing. This is generally the result of hitting or passing through a capillary or vein during the injection procedure, and small amounts of oil enter the bloodstream. What results is a coughing session that lasts for a matter of minutes as the traces of oil travel through the circulatory system to the lungs where it is expelled through coughing. For reasons unknown, Trenbolone presents a far more intense cough than the similar coughing experiences found when injecting other anabolic steroids. Note that the coughing fits from injections can occur with any injectable anabolic steroid; however, Trenbolone tends to produce more intense coughing fits if this does occur. As previous mentioned, it is unknown as to why although there are several different in existence as to why – none of which have been definitively proven to be the case. The ‘Tren cough’ is not life threatening or severe, but can be frightening for those experiencing it for the first time and unaware of what is happening or why.

Diminished cardiovascular capacity: Trenbolone is known to increase a prostaglandin in the body known as prostaglandin F2Alpha. This creates bronchial constriction, and the severity of this is very much dose-dependent. More severe diminished cardiovascular capacity occurs with higher and higher doses of Trenbolone. Some users do not experience this side effect at all at a dose below a certain point. This is not a life threatening issue, and the bronchial constriction manifests itself in the user finding themselves having to breathe harder and heavier during physical exertions that did not affect the user in such a manner prior to Trenbolone use. This side effect is not permanent and it does cease and disappear when Trenbolone administration is halted and the compound has cleared from the body.

Increased aggression and irritability: As Trenbolone is a very high androgenic compound (with its rating of 500), it is well known that Trenbolone can cause feelings of increased aggression and irritability in many users. Some users do not experience this effect, while others do. This effect is also largely dose dependent, with higher doses exacerbating this effect. It is advised that if a potential user has anger and temper issues prior to use of Trenbolone, then they will likely have an exacerbated anger/temper issue while using Trenbolone and it is advised in such a case that the potential user avoid Trenbolone. In general, it is the responsibility of the individual to maintain a proper mental state and be aware at all times of his/her actions. Proper discipline and self-control are an absolute necessity when utilizing compounds such as Trenbolone – especially at higher doses. The use of drugs of any sort is no excuse for one to absolve themselves of all responsibility and blame the drug when/if they do something they regret – remember this.

Increased kidney and liver stress: Liver and kidney stress increases are commonly discussed as a side effect of Trenbolone. The truth of the matter is that Trenbolone is no more stressful on the kidneys or the liver than most other injectable anabolic steroids. At most, Trenbolone may be ever so slightly higher on the kidney and liver toxicity, but nothing to make large note or worry of – though one should always be observant and take the appropriate precautions. The rumor of kidney issues with Trenbolone stem from the fact that while using Trenbolone, urine takes on a much darker and perhaps a more orange tone in color which is often mistaken for blood in the urine. This is not the case. The truth of the matter is that Trenbolone and its metabolites possess a very dark rusty color, which translates into the color of the urine – this is not because the kidneys are being damaged. Trenbolone is known to oxidize to a dark rusty color even under refrigeration, and this happens often with no indications of renal toxicity. In addition, Trenbolone has been used for a long time and still continues to be used for the purpose of cattle lean mass increases for food. There has never been any mention of kidney toxicity in this case in the animals that are administered the compound. The same is said for the few humans that have been administered Trenbolone in clinical studies. In short, what people think is blood in the urine is really simply the Trenbolone metabolites excreted, resulting in darker more rusty colored urine.


Liver stress: Trenbolone is not C17 Alpha Alkylated, which is the process that makes anabolic steroids bioavailable orally, with the downside being that the alkylation places stress on the liver and results in hepatotoxicity. Trenbolone is void of this. However, Trenbolone is ever so slightly liver toxic due to its chemical structure which grants Trenbolone to be very resistant to hepatic breakdown to a greater degree than all other injectable anabolic steroids. This is not a large cause for concern, however, and Trenbolone is not known to be anywhere near as liver toxic as oral anabolic steroids, but one should always monitor liver enzyme values through blood work from the doctor. Should any user be especially concerned with the issue of possible liver toxicity despite the minimal effect of Trenbolone in this case, a proper liver protectant can be run during the course of a Trenbolone cycle, such as UDCA/TUDCA.

[ODB Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ODB]

One of our members is a bodybuilder that dedicated his life to bodybuilding. He has has very impressing carreer and won many many worldtitels, from junior to master.

Still with aging our body changes and he shot me a p.m. to brainstorm and to ask about the quality of some UGLabs. I thought this case was interesting for competing bodybuilders amoung us. Thus I´ll post it. If you have input, just post.

k many thanks ronny I am on parabolan XXX , in this moment I have big contest in june and july, but for the first time I have gyno and some water, (i take with proprionate testosterone 300 mg week, and 300 mg week XXX masteron enanthate) I have buy some dostinex and begin today before bed, and I have beginning winstrol tabs 50 mg day with proviron 25 mg day, it is the first time tren make gyno to me, for sure XXX is really good tren it is for this reason I hope.
like every time I am cutting like this but this year water problem and legs no cut (prolactin) your opinion will be good for me, I take also like every time I am cutting captropril for me number one for water and cut my legs, but this year problem, I hope with dostinex in the end of june I will be ready and win the over 50.
thanks for your help

another good read Ronny.

also another possibility could be = some UG labs just sell Test or Deca as "Tren" (or any other cheaper AAS - Tren powder is very expensive) - ie. mislabeled.

Therefore he's not getting cut w/Tren effects but a higher dose of Test or another AAS?

[beatricia Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close beatricia]

Thanks for this good read ronny, it is possible to take whit dostinex some nolvadex or no nedd.
bea

[Shrek Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Shrek]

As always interesting and educational Ronny!

[Xxplosive Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Xxplosive]

Good read Ronny, thank you... just one question: Can the estro build up from prolactin be controlled with letrozole, or does it HAVE to be something cabergolin?

[ODB Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ODB]

Prolactin (PRL), also known as lactotrope, is a protein that in humans is encoded by the PRL gene.[1] Prolactin is a peptide hormone discovered by Oscar Riddle and important later work was done by Henry Friesen. Although it is perhaps best known for its role in lactation, prolactin already existed in the oldest known vertebrates—fish—where its most important functions were probably related to control of water and salt balance.

EFFECTS;
Prolactin has over 300 known effects.[citation needed] It stimulates the mammary glands to produce milk (lactation): Increased serum concentrations of prolactin during pregnancy cause enlargement of the mammary glands of the breasts and prepare for the production of milk. Milk production normally starts when the levels of progesterone fall by the end of pregnancy and a suckling stimulus is present. Sometimes, newborn babies (males as well as females) secrete a milky substance from their nipples known as witch's milk. This is in part caused by maternal prolactin and other hormones.

Prolactin provides the body with sexual gratification after sexual acts: The hormone counteracts the effect of dopamine, which is responsible for sexual arousal. This is thought to cause the sexual refractory period. The amount of prolactin can be an indicator for the amount of sexual satisfaction and relaxation. Unusually high amounts are suspected to be responsible for impotence and loss of libido (see hyperprolactinemia symptoms).

Highly elevated levels of prolactin decrease the levels of sex hormones — estrogen in women and testosterone in men.[3] The effects of mildly elevated levels of prolactin are much more variable, in women both substantial increase or decrease of estrogen levels may result.

Prolactin is sometimes classified as a gonadotropin[4] although in humans it has only a weak luteotropic effect while the effect of suppressing classical gonadotropic hormones is more important.[5] Prolactin within the normal reference ranges can act as a weak gonadotropin but at the same time suppresses GnRH secretion. The exact mechanism by which it inhibits GnRH is poorly understood although expression of prolactin receptors (PRL-R) have been demonstrated in rat's hypothalmus,the same has not been observed in GnRH neurons.[6] Physiologic levels of prolactin in males enhance luteinizing hormone-receptors in Leydig cells, resulting in testosterone secretion, which leads to spermatogenesis.[7]

Prolactin also stimulates proliferation of oligodendrocyte precursor cells. These cells differentiate into oligodendrocytes, the cells responsible for the formation of myelin coatings on axons in the central nervous system.[8]

Prolactin also has a number of other effects including contributing to surfactant synthesis of the fetal lungs at the end of the pregnancy and immune tolerance of the fetus by the maternal organism during pregnancy.

Prolactin delays hair regrowth in mice.[9]

Prolactin promotes neurogenesis in maternal and foetal brains.[10][11]

[ODB Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ODB]

MEDICATIONS TO TREAT PROLACTINOMAS

A dopamine agonist is the best first treatment for a prolactinoma of any size. Two dopamine agonists are currently available for this purpose in the United States, cabergoline and bromocriptine, and another one as well in other countries, quinagolide.

Bromocriptine — Bromocriptine has been used for 30 years to treat prolactinomas. It is taken twice a day. While it is usually very effective in lowering blood prolactin levels, it can cause side effects, including dizziness, nausea, and nasal stuffiness. Many of the side effects can be avoided by taking the medication with meals or at bedtime and by starting with a very low dose (one-fourth to one-half tablet).

Cabergoline — Cabergoline is taken once or twice a week, and is much less likely to cause nausea compared with other dopamine agonists. It may be effective for treating prolactinomas that are resistant to bromocriptine. For all these reasons, cabergoline is the best first choice, except in women who are trying to become pregnant (see 'Becoming pregnant' below).

Effectiveness of dopamine agonists — Dopamine agonists are very effective for decreasing prolactin levels and the size of most prolactinomas. Cabergoline, which appears to be the most effective dopamine agonist, lowers prolactin levels in about 90 percent of people who have prolactinomas, often to a level that is normal. It also usually decreases the size of micro- and macroadenomas to normal. Prolactin levels usually fall within the first two to three weeks of treatment, but detectable decreases in adenoma size require more time, usually several weeks to months. When the adenoma affects vision, improvement in vision may begin within days of starting treatment.

If the prolactin level decreases to normal or near normal levels, the effects of the elevated prolactin are reversed. The upper normal value for serum prolactin in most laboratories is about 20 ng/mL (20 mcg/L SI units). In premenopausal women, ovarian function returns, estrogen levels increase, menstrual periods return, and fertility returns. In men, testicular function returns, causing an increase in energy, sex drive, muscle mass, blood count, and bone calcium. The ability to have an erection returns and, eventually, breast enlargement regresses

[Time Bandit Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Time Bandit]

I got a long way to go before I take big steps into all this. But this is an awesome read.