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  • oral vs subQ

    ...reading in for the blogpost on Trenbolone and found many interesting facts. See the pic for subQ trenbolone acetate being 50-100 fold stronger subQ. Methylated compounds like Nilevar and Metandrostenolone (Dianabol) turned out to be 10 times as affective subQ. I've explained this in the blogpost on D-bol-ject.

    Also many guys inject HCG - Growth Hormone - MGF and MT-DMN underneath the skin. We are now experimenting with other strong substances like TrenBase with Metribolone and Fluoxymesterolone.

    Still many guys also do the more normal roids like testosterone also subQ

    Subcutaneous Administration of Testosterone
    These two articles shows that subc injections of AAS are quite viable alternative for IM injections.

    Quote:
    STABLE TESTOSTERONE LEVELS ACHIEVED
    WITH SUBCUTANEOUS TESTOSTERONE
    INJECTIONS

    M.B. Greenspan, C.M. Chang
    Division of Urology, Department of Surgery, McMaster University,
    Hamilton, ON, Canada

    Objectives: The preferred technique of androgen replacement has been intramuscular (IM) testosterone, but wide variations in testosterone levels are often seen. Subcutaneous
    (SC) testosterone injection is a novel approach; however, its physiological effects are unclear.

    We therefore investigated the sustainability of stable testosterone levels using
    SC therapy.

    Patients and methods: Between May and September 2005, we conducted a small pilot study involving 10 male patients with symptomatic late-onset hypogonadism. Every patient had been stable on TE 200 mg IM for 41 year. Patients were instructed to self-inject with
    testosterone enanthate (TE) 100 mg SC (DELATESTRYL 200 mg/cc, Theramed Corp, Canada) into the anterior abdomen once weekly. Some patients were down-titrated to 50 mg based on their total testosterone (T) at 4 weeks. Informed consent was obtained as SC testosterone administration is not officially approved by Health Canada. T levels were measured before and 24 hours after injection during weeks 1, 2, 3, and 4, and 96 hours after injection in week 6 and 8. At week 12, PSA, CBC, and T levels were measured however; the week 12 data are still being collected. Results: Prior to initiation of SC therapy, T was 19.14+3.48 nmol/l, hemoglobin 15.8+1.3 g/dl, hematocrit 0.47+0.02, and PSA 1.05+0.65 ng/ml. During the first 4 weeks, there was a steady increase in pre-injection T from 19.14+3.48 to 23.89+9.15 nmol/l (p¼0.1). However, after 8 weeks the post-injection T (25.77+7.67 nmol/l) remained similar to that of week 1 (27.46+12.91 nmol/l).

    Patients tolerated this therapy with no adverse effects.

    Conclusions: A once-week SC injection of 50–100 mg of TE appears to achieve sustainable and stable levels of physiological T. This technique offers fewer physician visits and the use of smaller quantity of medication, thus lower costs. However, the long term clinical and physiological effects of this therapy need further evaluation.


    Quote:
    Saudi Med J. 2006 Dec;27(12):1843-6

    Subcutaneous administration of testosterone. A pilot study report.

    Al-Futaisi AM, Al-Zakwani IS, Almahrezi AM, Morris D.
    Department of Medicine, College of Medicine & Health Sciences, PO Box 35, Postal Code 123, Al-Khod, Sultanate of Oman. Tel. +968 99475401. Tel/Fax. +968 24413419. E-mail: alfutaisi@squ.edu.om.

    OBJECTIVE: To investigate the effect of low doses of subcutaneous testosterone in hypogonadal men since the intramuscular route, which is the most widely used form of testosterone replacement therapy, is inconvenient to many patients.

    METHODS: All men with primary and secondary hypogonadism attending the reproductive endocrine clinic at Royal Victoria Hospital, Monteral, Quebec, Canada, were invited to participate in the study.

    Subjects were enrolled from January 2002 till December 2002. Patients were asked to self-administer weekly low doses of testosterone enanthate using 0.5 ml insulin syringe. RESULTS: A total of 22 patients were enrolled in the study. The mean trough was 14.48 +/- 3.14 nmol/L and peak total testosterone was 21.65 +/- 7.32 nmol/L. For the free testosterone the average trough was 59.94 +/- 20.60 pmol/L and the peak was 85.17 +/- 32.88 pmol/L. All of the patients delivered testosterone with ease and no local reactions were reported.

    CONCLUSION: Therapy with weekly subcutaneous testosterone produced serum levels that were within the normal range in 100% of patients for both peak and trough levels. This is the first report, which demonstrated the efficacy of delivering weekly testosterone using this cheap, safe, and less painful subcutaneous route.
    Attached Files
    RonnyT
    Senior Member
    Last edited by RonnyT; 05-29-2012, 12:12 PM.

  • #2
    Good info. I've been reading up on this for a little while as I am interested in trying it my next cycle. There are people on other boards who have used and are using this method for all injectibles not just test with great results according to them....I'm think I am definitely going to try this route next time.

    Comment


    • #3
      Wouldn't it also depends on the person's BF%? I doubt it's as efficient if you inject into fat?
      Ain't no use in lookin' down
      Ain't no discharge on the ground
      Ain't no use in lookin' back
      'Cause Jody's got your Cadillac
      Ain't no use in feelin' blue
      'Cause Jody's got your lady too

      Comment


      • #4
        SC is suppose to be injected into the fat tissue below your skin. If you go too deep you will inject it into the muscle. If too shallow into the skin. Either way it will get absorbed just at different times. In other words it will take longer to absorb if injected into the fat as oppose to injecting directly into the muscle. When I did gh I injected both SC and IM with no issues. The reason I am looking into this is because when using short ester injectables you have to pin so much that it would be nice to have some options such s SC injections.

        Comment


        • #5
          so right now I am taking 37.5 mg of tren susp ed just mixed in with my prop.. would u change that scenario and just subq the tren or like it says in the case study once a week? got a lil confused, maybe cuz im cooking and i read it fast

          Comment


          • #6
            so....in other words the test showed that both methods are equal for injection muscle or fat?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by BLUELABEL View Post
              so right now I am taking 37.5 mg of tren susp ed just mixed in with my prop.. would u change that scenario and just subq the tren or like it says in the case study once a week? got a lil confused, maybe cuz im cooking and i read it fast
              You would change it to SC. From what i have read you don't want to inject more than 50-60mg at a time in one location. People have injected up to 1cc and most of them got a lump under the skin which lasted a couple of weeks. Its interesting to me because it gives you so many more places to pin, virtually painless, and no worries about scar tissue.
              shafranko
              Member
              Last edited by shafranko; 05-29-2012, 01:12 PM. Reason: spelling

              Comment


              • #8
                Those lumps can cause infection though.. it's not without risks either
                Ain't no use in lookin' down
                Ain't no discharge on the ground
                Ain't no use in lookin' back
                'Cause Jody's got your Cadillac
                Ain't no use in feelin' blue
                'Cause Jody's got your lady too

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by xamo View Post
                  Those lumps can cause infection though.. it's not without risks either
                  Definitely...i got the lump a couple of times pinning in my ass. I think i used a short needle and didnt reach the muscle and probably sent 2cc into the fat. I think pinning anywheretheres some kind of risk we just have to minimize them as much as possible. Injecting Sc no chance of hitting veins either.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    It shouldn't matter much as this thread subject is Sq vs orals however, why compare Sq vs IM? I thought people would do IM so that the gear wouldn't go through one's liver ? Sq is like orals and goes through your liver doesn't it? So it'd be as liver toxic?
                    Ain't no use in lookin' down
                    Ain't no discharge on the ground
                    Ain't no use in lookin' back
                    'Cause Jody's got your Cadillac
                    Ain't no use in feelin' blue
                    'Cause Jody's got your lady too

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      People inject (suspended) orals subq to avoid livertoxity. I'll make a blogpost about it. Second old research shows subq not only avoids livertoxity (for the biggest part) but is 10 times more potent (more effective). SubQ injects have a slower releaserate thus act as a natural depot.

                      Originally posted by xamo View Post
                      It shouldn't matter much as this thread subject is Sq vs orals however, why compare Sq vs IM? I thought people would do IM so that the gear wouldn't go through one's liver ? Sq is like orals and goes through your liver doesn't it? So it'd be as liver toxic?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        thanks for clearing it out
                        Ain't no use in lookin' down
                        Ain't no discharge on the ground
                        Ain't no use in lookin' back
                        'Cause Jody's got your Cadillac
                        Ain't no use in feelin' blue
                        'Cause Jody's got your lady too

                        Comment

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