ampoulle closing NormaT

[dino Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dino]

Two thoughts(just thoughts im not saying that some is fake or someone is selling fake): i had in my hands perfect copies of Deca Norma's vial except from the batch number/exp date, photo of the factory boxes means nothing, i've posted photos of Winstrol Desma Lote B029 with factory box, W.Llewellyn claims is fake on february's issue of Muscular Development...it's more simple to fake factory boxes than vial/amp/label but you seems more legit if you give to the customer the impression of a direct contact with the producer...

[joebig Member Find all posts View Profile Close joebig]

Just to clarify, I was not talking about the factory boxes, I was talking about the factory cases the boxes come in. For example, there are 458 boxes inside a factory case of iranian test. Some sources have pics of the factory cases. I was just saying that if a source has pics of the factory cases, it is more believable they are actually buying direct from the factory.

[RonnyT Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close RonnyT]

boxes

true, thats why most forums don't allow pics of amounts of gear that are not for personal use.

In the last box a note with the name of a member to show him I do know where I'm talking about. Boxes are not mine of course, but belong to a friend.

[joebig Member Find all posts View Profile Close joebig]

Damn I wanna jump right into each one of those boxes. So Ronny, just to clarify, do you think those norma deca posted by Big Matt that had the closed 4 instead of an open 4 are genuine products from Norma? Could the reason one of them has a closed 4 is because one of the different contracted plants use open 4 and one uses closed 4?

[dino Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dino]

Just to clarify, I was not talking about the factory boxes, I was talking about the factory cases the boxes come in. For example, there are 458 boxes inside a factory case of iranian test. Some sources have pics of the factory cases. I was just saying that if a source has pics of the factory cases, it is more believable they are actually buying direct from the factory.

I was talking about what you call factory cases: it's more simple to fake them and like you said it's more easy to believe that a boxes of 3 winny is legit if it's inside a 156 items factory case. This is the factory case of Winstrol Desma (W.Llewellyn on the february's issue of Muscular Development says it's fake,Lote B029). At the moment i haven't seen it tested but i repeat that is very easy to fake a factory case it's just carton and some stamped paper. Of course i'm not saying that the Ronny's magic boxes are fake....

[joebig Member Find all posts View Profile Close joebig]

Ya I see what you are saying. Was there ever a real batch B029 ever made by Desma? If so, those factory cases could be the real thing from the real batch B029. Counterfeiters usually use batch #s from real batches so it looks more legit. So there could be real B029 and some counterfeit B029 that William got ahold of that were fake.

[RonnyT Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close RonnyT]

nonsense

William has no real items and has no contacts with the counterfeiters. He based his knowledge on the posting of a spanish website. The package and amps shows differences just like the vials. I have both packs on that website listed as real/fake in my collection (I keep a sample from the shipments to be able to compare) This particular number B029 was delivered by Desma. Dino got areal box

[RonnyT Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close RonnyT]

differences

Even the colour of the leaflet and karton is different, but the leaflet lists the Madrid factory as manfacturing place for both samples . That doesn't mean the boxes are printed the same day. Its obvious they don't mind a few deviations. The holograms on both boxes give the same colour spectrum under the light.

I attached a pic that shows the differences better on real/fake with the hologram. We analysed one counterfeit and received an other directly from Bulgaria.

To be honest I followed the common idea that the B 029 was counterfeit until I decided to check out more thorough today.

Bacteria and analyses http://juicedmuscle.com/showthread.php?214-Desma

[dino Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dino]

William has no real items and has no contacts with the counterfeiters. He based his knowledge on the posting of a spanish website. The package and amps shows differences just like the vials. I have both packs on that website listed as real/fake in my collection (I keep a sample from the shipments to be able to compare) This particular number B029 was delivered by Desma. Dino got areal box

Thanks Ronny. I must say that a lot of people used that LoteB029 via injection and got no issue. But i'm always suspicious, even if who knows tell me it's ok... thanks again Ronny. If you need a sample of it: ask me! ( i was talking to Ronny... )

[ab2 Banned Find all posts View Profile Close ab2]

On the original issue of the Norma Test amps.

I have seen several references to more than one contractor.
Does anyone have any evidence that Norma products are produced anywhere other than at the Famar manufacturing plant in Alimos?
Do Norma themselves do any manufacturing of either Test E or Deca?

[ab2 Banned Find all posts View Profile Close ab2]

Very interesting. Ronny, you are the man! So maybe that would explain why that guy Big Matt who received norma deca that looked 100% legit except for the fact that he had closed 4s in his batch # could easily really have real Norma that were made by another one of the contractors. Maybe one uses open 4s and the other uses closed 4s. I compared his norma deca to mine which had the open 4s and both are identical. I know mine are real so that would mean his are as well, unless their are some damn near perfect fakes that have the norma logo with stars on the label, uv watermark on the box, and different #s on the sticker on the box.

I think Joebig's question on if any closed 4's have been found on known Real Norma deca is still valid.

[ab2 Banned Find all posts View Profile Close ab2]

I've been thinking about the motivation for the counterfeiter to produce factory outer boxes.
Clearly they would be easy enough to produce.
One thought is if they are moving large quantities of medications across country borders.
Could the extra effort required in producing factory outer boxes help them pass through customs without alerting extra suspicion (at least between some countries)?

[goanywhere Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close goanywhere]

As always - great job Ronny. I wonder what the ratio is in total of counterfeit/fake vs bona fide gear overall?

[RonnyT Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close RonnyT]

That depends on your source or country. Research in a very libeate country like the Nethrlands still comes on an average of 60%.
* Quality of illegal doping substances – an exploration of the quality of illegally traded doping substances and the health risks that accompany their use 2005, O. de Hon & R. van Kleij

The Dutch study covers four years and involves the analyses performed on 203 products that where seized at the arrest of dealers or became available through other channels of the Dutch inspection for public health, during the period between 2000-2003 and were analysed for the presence of active ingredients as claimed on the label. The study contains a total of 336 products that were analysed. Beside the products from the period between 2000-2003 the NeCeDo study made a comparison with the results of 98 analyses from 1998 performed by the NIDDR (Netherlands Institute for Drugs and Doping Research in Utrecht)
They completed the study with extra analyses to the quality on eight products that where bought on the internet in the year 2004 and to the uniformity of ten counterfeited means that required 27 analyses.

[RonnyT Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close RonnyT]

A couterfeiter usualy uses an existing lotnumber. Maybe there are counterfeits with that lotnumber, I wouldn't be surprised. But the differences, in this case, where real.