T-BOL.. Just a mass builder?? WINNY just a hardener?

[kodak_flash Member Find all posts View Profile Close kodak_flash]

hi guys,
just a quick msg.
dont know if to run T-BOL or WINNY orals for what i want..

would like a bit more size but to harden up/more vascular a bit aswel..any ideas?
sounds like winny but im afraid i wont gain a lbs of muscle with winny,

im now about 91kg,my avatar pic is old'ish.i get compliments on my size (very broad and bigish arms)but would like more bit more mass as i said and i love wearing tshirts/vest as i work aroad and its hot (beach time!) and that muscular look is what i want! vain pumping woop woop

your knowledge and experiences welcome for a fairly new newbie,no injection ideas.

rj

[graffix Banned Find all posts View Profile Close graffix]

Id say that's about right? If u had the cash then u could use andriol caps(test undeconate) along with the winny and I always ue proviron, that keeps me lookn hard and ripped. I know u said no inj but I think eq could help alot

[kodak_flash Member Find all posts View Profile Close kodak_flash]

yeh thats what iv heard about he winny and tbol.
what you recon on dosage for winny?to start off with then when to increase or is it how my body adapts to it..?

[GoingUnder87 Member Find all posts View Profile Close GoingUnder87]

ive used both...

tbol 60mgs 6 weeks - i wont use again cuz its not very powerful for an oral, well it is but theres better options IME. clean gains and decent strength took like 2-3weeks to start working if i member correctly

winstrol 50mgs x 8 weeks - fcking awesome. im on it in my avi which is like 2 years old but i really noticed a difference on it. i used it at 7%bf and i just got a crisp look. not like competition hard but i wasnt that low in bf. would strongly reccomend. i never got joint pain like others complain about.

[football09 Member Find all posts View Profile Close football09]

Tbol and winny both have there purpose both not mass builders and if using them that why look at another aas. I am using 100mg tbol ed and love it. If your going to run Tbol I wanted run less then 60mg ed.

[sam1976 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close sam1976]

would like a bit more size but to harden up/more vascular a bit aswel..any ideas?
sounds like winny but im afraid i wont gain a lbs of muscle with winny,

it'll come down to diet more than the choice of drug. winny will make the muscle hard and dry. if you diet off enough fat, you'll see vascularity and grainyness. thats if you diet hard enough and get your body fat low enough. on the other hand, if you diet that hard, you probably aren't going to gain new muscle. as far as drugs go, winny isn't great for gains.
same thing could be said about gaining muscle. if you take tbol and your diet is solid, eating at least 300 grams of protein plus your carbs and fats, you will gain new muscle and if you keep eating that way, there is a good chance you'll keep alot of your gains, but you probably won't lose much fat.

the answer you dont want to hear is...test is the most flexable drug. cutting or bulking it is easy to mold though estrogen control to meet your needs. at the end of the day, you cn really use any steroid to reach any goal if the diet is in place. some will just be better suited than others.

[kodak_flash Member Find all posts View Profile Close kodak_flash]

cheers for the advice guys!
prb the most common q ever,wana get hard/buly and lose fat haha

prob get the winny and diet,maybe a silly question but should i do a WINNY SPECIFIC WORKOUT now? what ever that could be..or jut what i norm do which is day.1chest/tri - 2back - 3bi/shoulders - 4rest - 5rest - 6chet/tri so on so on....

[sam1976 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close sam1976]

your best bet is to train hard and heavy. thats what it takes to build muscle and thats what it takes to maintain it while you cut. just be careful as winny can make your joints dry and make it easier to get injured. your diet and cardio should determine your fat loss.

[swanny34 Member Find all posts View Profile Close swanny34]

Dude your missing the most important workout . . . LEGS !!!!!!!!!!!!

[kodak_flash Member Find all posts View Profile Close kodak_flash]

im a rugby player and my ass sticks out,not wanting to make them bigger lol
train rugby 3rimes a week and most is legs and cardio

[atavist Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close atavist]

I'd like to second Sam's warning... some say it doesn't but in my personal experience Winny dries me out so bad it hurts to move... and to shut down is no joke... after a week on I feel miserably low energy and depressed... this was of course trying it stand alone with no test... I do plan to try it again in the future while on test.

good luck...

[kodak_flash Member Find all posts View Profile Close kodak_flash]

cheers for all the input guys..
when you say dry up and joints hurting is this becuase theres no water retention or the winstrol reduces water retention as a tablet?
thing to take to stop joints dryingup?

[Silver Back Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Silver Back]

Low dose test and tbol would work nicely for what you want. Tbol givs me killer strength and lbm gains minus any bloat.

Gp's tbol fucking awesome btw

[kodak_flash Member Find all posts View Profile Close kodak_flash]

but i want to harden up and not gain alot in mass,wouldnt the test n tbol make me huge??
whatwould low does test n tbol do for me.
am pretty new silver back,sorry for the explentaion hunting

[Mickey Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Mickey]

what kind of strength increase did you see with t-bol how long was the cycle at what dosage