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View Full Version : How should i run GP test prop & Gp tren?



infatuation
03-11-2011, 03:04 AM
I just ordered 2 of GP's Test prop and a bag of Gp's oral tren... how should I run this combo? I was thinking 10 weeks, 1ml injects twice a week and one tablet of tren once a week because i heard its pretty bad for you... any opinions or comments are welcome thanks!

infatuation
03-11-2011, 03:07 AM
keep in mind i'm no serious gym buff, but i want to be!

Guest
03-11-2011, 03:15 AM
What cycle is this .. And what are your stats...

infatuation
03-11-2011, 02:54 PM
1st cycle and i'm new to this... stats unknown... i'm 5'11", 185lbs

infatuation
03-11-2011, 03:58 PM
Anybody got anything for me?

stumpy
03-11-2011, 04:06 PM
Only advice....drop the tren, it's not for begginers. Test prop EOD injections.
Are you running any AI during cycle and what is your PCT like?

infatuation
03-11-2011, 05:59 PM
I don't even know what PCT or AI is!!!!! i've done a 5 week cycle of prop before with very little training involved though... i'm not going to drop the tren so how should i do it?

stumpy
03-11-2011, 06:09 PM
I'm not trying to give you hard time, only want to help you but..............start reading and learning before you end up in a hospital!
Some help:
How to KEEP GAINS from steroids


This info I have gleaned from self research, trial and error, from my endochrinologist, from SWALE and from training hundreds of clients over the years.

This is a longish post but many of you will greatly benefit from reading it so try to bare with my "blathering"

First of all I would like to stress that I and my endochrinologist do not believe one can keep gains above ones natural max, or that level of muscular developement that can be held to without steroids. In other words, I think one will always shrink down to the size that can be held to with ones own T production.

In reality what usually happens is that many(not all) steroid users fall BELOW their natural max within months of discontinuing steroids for one or all of the following reasons......poor HPTA recovery and or lack of knowledge in regard to what makes up proper steroid free training.

If HPTA recovery is not fairly rapid and complete then obviously one risks dropping BELOW ones natural max in time. If one does not know how to train effectively without steroids then one will rapidly overtrain and drop below natural max in time, not to mention the strong possibilty of injury which also will hinder gainskeeping.

You can, however, makes gains well above your natural max while on steroids and then with prudent use of ancillaries, and proper natural training, hold to your natural max well into ones 50's and perhaps early 60's.

As an estimate of natural max.......the average guy of average height( 5"9 or 10" and with average bone structure and genetically typical recuperative abilities (vast majority of men) can usually get to a lean 190-195 with a bench of 275-300, full squat of 375-400 and a deadlift of about 500 pounds without steroids.


ANCILLARIES....HCG


Dare I say that HCG use is more important than SERMS(nolva or clomid) for good hpta recovery after a LONG cycle( 12 weeks or longer)
Personally I would use hcg during any cycle 8 weeks or longer...and if you are really paranoid and want the absolute most rapid hpta recovery then use it during any cycle for next to zero testicular shrinkage.

Now you will recover hpta without hcg, and fairly quickly if you truly have not suffered from much testicular atrophy, but not as rapidly as you could and that will cost you at least some gains.

HCG, human chorionic gonadotropin, is a hormone taken from placentas during pregnancy. It limics the action of LH from the pituitary and stimualtes testosterone production in the testes.

It is important to the male bodybuilder in that proper use of this hormone PREVENTS testicular atrophy caused by HPTA shut down from steroid use.

If the testes are shut down they will shrink, it's as simple as that. The degree of shrinkage depends upon the length of time "on" androgens. Some guys literally see their testes atrophy down to raisen size..NO ****. Others see modest shrinkage and a few say they see NO shrinkage. In the latter this is BS and has to due with poor pre-cycle assessmant of testicular size....after all how many of us sit down before a cycle and really feel the true size of our balls.


NOTE: all steroids will shut you down 100% and at a very low dose, and that includes Primo and anavar for you sceptics. As little as 100mg a weekof testosterone administered exogenously in the form of injections will shut you down in as little as a few weeks.

HPTA RECOVERY

The hormones that drive the HPT axis(LH and GnRH) recover full potential quite quickly post cycle. The hypothalamus rapidly senses a low androgen level and pumps out GnRH and this tells the pituitary to release LH for testicular stimulation of T production......trouble is if the nuts are small they simply cannot respond well to this stimulation. The testes take a fair amount of time to "get going" after a long sleep and as a result T levels post cycle can be low for months(if greatly atrophied). This obviously results in a rapid loss of gains, not to mention phycological isssues such as depression as well as physical issues like fatigue.

* SO it is important for "optimal" gainskeeping to try to begin HPTA recovery with full or nearly full sized testes.

HOW TO USE HCG

It is best to prevent testicular atrophy in the first place rather than trying to bringing the boys back to size after they have already atrophied.
With this in mind prudent use of hcg is DURING a cycle.

HCG can be taken either IM or sub Q in the fat and yes you can mix it with your oils.

Take it at 500iu's every 3rd or 4th day while on cycle.


Some use it post cycle at higher doses after their testes have already shrunk. This method works but I do not believe that it is the best way to use HCG. In this method one injects a high dose of hcg right near the end ofa cycle but before clomid. The opening dose is often 3000iu's followed sometimes by another 3000 4 days latter and then 1500iu's every 4th or 5th day and then the last shot is usually only 1000iu's....total time three weeks.
No use taking clomid or nolav with the HCG since HCG will supress the hpta all by itself via the testosterone production it stimulates.

WARNING.....if you use hcg at a high dose for too long you might desensitize the testes to LH so don't get carried away with it.



SERMS clomid and nolva

After any cycle a SERM should be used, either clomid or nolva.

SERMS help to "kickstart" a sleepy hpyothalmic GnRH response.

GnRH is pretty quick to recover but SERMS help the hypothalamus to "turn the key" on the GnRH impulse generating engine.

SERMS block the affect of estrogen at the hypothalamus and since estrogen is highly inhibitory this blocking affect allows for greater LH production. This "greater LH production" strongly stimulates the testes to produce testosterone.
If you use only gear that does NOT aromatize to estrogen then you don't have to worry about the inhibitory affect of estrogen post cycle(from the steroid)...but SERMs should still be used to counter the inhibitory affect of the estrogen seen form the T production(from the hcg use).....and also from the estrogen production from the aromatization of the T production form your testes after the hcg is stopped.

*Even if you never used HCG you should still use a SERM after a cycle with non aromatizing gear to counter the inhibitory effect of normal estrogen production(from the aromatization of T from your improving T production)

You have to wait until exogenous androgen levels drop to a similar level of what a normal T production would be, in order for this LH stimulating affect from SERMS to work, since androgens are also highly inhibitory on the hypothalamus.

So you must have to have a good grasp on the half lifes of the various gear you use. You also have to be aware of the how the dose taken factors into the equation. ie: test cyp has a half life of around 6 days so with this in mind 500mg of test cyp will reduce to 250 mg in a week and about 125 in another week. That 125mg is about 100mg of pure testosterone(minus ester weight) and you can now begin SERM therapy because that level is near what a normal T output would be(slightly higher though)

NOTE: There is no penalty for starting a SERM too early but there is one for starting too late.

Search for half lifes of other gear in other threads on the boards.

On opening "SERM day", post cycle, you want to do a "loading dose" of about 200-300mg of clomid in divided doses in order to get blood levels up pronto. Then take 50-100mg/day for a week and then 50mg/day for 3 more weeks MINIMUM... and longer after deca use.
Alternatively you can use nolva at 80mg on day one in divided dose and then 40mg /day for a week and then 20mg/day for at least 3 more weeks.

stumpy
03-11-2011, 06:10 PM
http://juicedmuscle.com/showthread.php?351-Trenbolone-Pt.1
Trenbolone Pt.1

Pharmaceutical Name: Trenbolone Acetate / Trenbolone Enanthate / Hexahydrobenzylcarbonate / Cyclohexylmethylcarbonate
Common Brand/Trade/Slang Names: Tren, Fina, Para, Trenbolone
Chemical Structure: 17β-Hydroxyestra-4,9,11-trien-3-one
Delivery Method: Injectable
Half Life: Ester dependant:
•Trenbolone Acetate ~1 day
•Trenbolone Enanthate, Hexahydrobenzlycarbonate, Cyclohexylmethylcarbonate - 5-6 days


Background
Trenbolone is a very powerful steroid that has never been FDA approved for use in humans. It was originally developed as finaplex pellets for use as a vetinary product to be put under the skin of cattle. However over time bodybuilders have realised its unique properties and powerful benefits and it has become a favourite anabolic steroid for many, despite having more harsh side effects than most other steroids. Many people would convert the pellets into an injectable form, in a rather crude and dangerous manner that would neither be safe nor sterile, and poses many risks. However, despite being non-approved by the FDA, there are a number of respectable Underground Labs (UGLs) that produce quality injectable forms of trenbolone. For the user who understandably likes to stick to pharmaceutical grade steroids, unfortunately there is no such form of trenbolone available.

Trenbolone is a highly androgenic steroid, with binding to the Androgen Receptor (AR) in the region of three times as high as testosterone. It does not aromatise and so is not subject to estrogenic side effects. In addition to high androgenicity, it is also extremely anabolic too, thus is very good at building muscle mass, and retaining muscle mass in a calorie deficient mode. It is also thought that trenbolone inhibits cortisol production directly through the glucocorticoid receptors. Trenbolone is often found to be a body transforming drug, and also can aid a little in fat loss. This may be due to the very strong binding of trenbolone to the AR, which has been postulated to be one mechanism that results in the activation of fat loss pathways, possible through direct binding to fat cells' ARs. This makes trenbolone a favourite among bodybuilders for cutting, and in addition to these benefits, trenbolone usually results in large increases in strength due to its high androgenic effects.

Trenbolone although not converted to estrogen, does have progesteronic effects, which will be discussed further in the side effects section of this article.

Suggested Cycles / Uses
Typically today underground labs produce trenbolone acetate as 75g/ml or 100mg/ml. It is often recommended first-time users of trenbolone to use the faster acting acetate in case the side effects become too much for the user, they can then come off of the steroid very quickly and it is out of the system much quicker than, for example, the enanthate ester. For the novice user, 75mg or 100mg every other day (eod) is advised, however due to the acetate ester being even shorter than a propionate ester and the half life 1 day or less, to both reduce sides and aid gains, it is advisable that the user (if they can bear every day injections) injects trenbolone acetate every day (ed), at 37.5-50mg ed.

More advanced users may find that taking the trenbolone to amounts over 500mg per week has very desirable effects on strength and body composition, however note that the side effects will also increase with the increase in dose. Due to the negative effect that trenbolone has on libido, it is not generally recommended to take trenbolone without testosterone. However, one can take trenbolone for short periods without testosterone and introduce an aid such as Proviron (metsterolone) to help with the libido issues, along with proper extensive post cycle therapy (PCT) for recovery. A typical test-free cycle with trenbolone may include something like 600mg Primobolan per week, 400mg trenbolone enanthate per week, for 10 weeks, PCT starting 2 weeks after last injections. The enanthate ester and other similar esters of trenbolone can be injected twice per week.

stumpy
03-11-2011, 06:11 PM
http://juicedmuscle.com/showthread.php?352-Trenbolone-Pt.2
Trenbolone Pt.2

Common Side effects
Out of all the injectable steroids available, trenbolone is the one that should be used with extreme caution and only after plenty of research into its side effects and common cycles have been carried out. Trenbolone side effects can be very bad to many users, so much so that they will not use it despite its very positive effects on the body and strength. Firstly, as trenbolone is so androgenic, all side effects that are seen with strong androgens can be expected (if prone) with trenbolone. If one is prone to male pattern baldness (MPB) than trenbolone will likely speed this up. Some users find acne on trenbolone worse than when on any other steroid. Certainly Trenbolone is not recommended for female users due to its strong androgenic properties and the common side effects that manifest themselves in females who use strong androgens.

Despite the fact that trenbolone cannot aromatise, due to the progesterone route it can cause things like gynecomastia, but this will only really happen in the presence of estrogen. This does happen though in many users, as trenbolone is usually stacked with a testosterone, which obviously can and will convert to estrogen. Gynecomastia from trenbolone can be quite bad many will find, however if you do not suffer from this than other estrogenic side effects should not be of worry, as trenbolone does not cause any water retention or similar, but in fact often gives a hardened look and feel to the muscles.

Trenbolone also seems to give many users poor sleep patterns and insomnia. In addition, it can cause severe sweating in many, both during the night time and also just from doing the smallest of activities such as walking up stairs, etc. It also can impair to a certain degree, cardiovascular function, which means that it is not ideal for use in those who regular partake in such sports or activity that require a decent level of cardiovascular fitness.

Trenbolone also increases blood pressure in many users, some to such a degree that they have to cease using it. Thus it is recommended that one who wishes to use trenbolone, invests in a blood pressure monitor so they can regularly measure their blood pressure and keep an eye on it throughout the cycle.

Many people claim that trenbolone has a negative effect on the kidneys. There are many of these claims certainly across the Internet since its use has become more widespread. However, there is no real evidence for these claims, and certainly I have seen many long-term users of trenbolone have kidney function tests that are well within the normal range. Perhaps the reason for this theory is the fact that when using trenbolone, many find that their urine can become a much darker more orange-brown colour. However, this is due to the fact that trenbolone undergoes very little modification or breakdown and is excreted as a rust-coloured oxidised form in the urine. In addition to this, any damage to kidney may not even be directly due to the trenbolone, but more to do with the increased sweating and water loss from excessive body heat whilst on trenbolone, without the sufficient addition of water intake. Thus it is recommended if running trenbolone to keep the water intake high.

As trenbolone is such a strong steroid, it is very harsh on the HTPA axis and will shut down the body's natural testosterone production very easily and, for many, very harshly. It is comparable to 'deca dick' that people can experience with deca, and longer cycles may need to include the use of HCG to restore one's own natural production of testosterone. Recovery from cycles containing trenbolone is not easy, and requires a very well thought out and stringent PCT routine and diet.

It has also been suggested through research that trenbolone actually (although aiding slightly in fat loss) reduces endogenous T3 levels. Thus some advocate the use of 25mcg T3 throughout a trenbolone cycle. This writer does not personally think that this is necessary; however it is something that users may wish to consider when using trenbolone, especially if their natural T3 production is on the lower side of the normal range. It is a very good idea to get blood work done both before and after any cycle including trenbolone.

Tren cough
The so called 'tren cough' or 'Fina cough' is well known amongst many tren users. Some users seem to get the cough following every injection; others never or extremely rarely will get the cough. Usually it is manifested upon injection, with a tightness in the chest, and a metallic taste in the back of the mouth, followed by an uncontrollable violent cough which can be quite frightening, as anyone who has experienced it will tell you, whether it's for the first time or not. There have been some very elaborate theories about the reasons for getting the cough from trenbolone, some of which have had mechanisms involving molecules that only trenbolone affects resulting in bronchioconstriction, etc. However, the fact remains that many users have also experienced the same cough from steroids such as equipoise and testosterone cypionate. In addition, these mechanisms that are proposed are highly unlikely to occur immediately upon injection, as that is too fast a timescale for the proposed mechanism. Thus it must be the result of something entering the blood stream and traveling to the lungs for the cough to be manifested that quickly.

This leads us onto the next theory suggested by many which is that trenbolone is produced by many UGLs, and as such is made with higher percentages of Benzyl Alcohol (BA) than pharma grade products are, and it is the alcohol that is causing the reaction. The only problem with this theory is that trenbolone is made by most UGLs with the same BA percentages as things such as testosterone propionate, and nandrolone decanoate. If it was purely the BA concentration, than we would expect to see the cough with these other products as well, which we do not. Thus, as we have eliminated the oil, solvents and carriers, it leaves us with the Trenbolone product itself as the potential culprit.

One thing that you notice about trenbolone is that it is often a golden-brown / rust colour when in oil solution. If the hormone powder is refined to greater than 99.5% purity or so, then the colour of trenbolone in solution actually gives a very light golden colour, much like other testosterone products; however, refining the hormone to this level of purity is extremely difficult. This is why there is colour variation from batch to batch with different underground labs; something as small as 0.1% purity can affect the colour of the final product.

As mentioned above when discussing kidney effects of trenbolone, the oxidised trenbolone is a rust colour – much like the colour seen of trenbolone in oil solution. What you also notice with steroids such as Equipoise and to a lesser degree, testosterone cypionate, is that these steroids too are hard to very highly refine and often a browny-rust colour, more so than products such as testosterone propionate, etc. It is very likely then that these oxidised particles get into the blood stream upon injection and this causes some sort of anaphylactic (allergic) reaction in the lungs as the particles react with the alveoli, perhaps. This seems to be confirmed by the fact that the darker the trenbolone is the more likely one is to get a cough (personal and general experience). The best way to try and avoid this is to firstly inject very slowly and not move the needle around after aspirating, and also mixing the trenbolone with another product such as test prop.

infatuation
03-11-2011, 06:38 PM
side effects from the 1 tablet of oral tren taken once a week or every week and a half, or even every 2 weeks must be minimal though, no?

infatuation
03-11-2011, 07:38 PM
must be someone that started with low doses of tren with prop... i'd love to hear the outcome!

infatuation
03-12-2011, 01:12 PM
I've been doing some reading and Gp's oral tren is no joke and I get that but call me stuborn if you will but yes I am going ahead with it.... I live in Labrador where we eat allot of wild meat such as moose, caribou, and lots of fish... My body changes very fast normally... I'm hoping for big change with decent gains! I can put on 10lbs in 2 weeks just from eating allot without any juice but its not the kind of weight i'm looking for...

sixteentons
03-12-2011, 03:20 PM
Excellant post Stumpy. Alot of good info. Thanks

Guest
03-14-2011, 03:43 PM
Well if your gonna do it ur gonna do it.. U dont take one pill once a week.. You take 1 pill everyday.. Which is 250 mcg daily... If you do not notice anything up it to 500 mcg a day... Do not exceed 750mcg a day because from what i have read tht is when the side effects begin to take effect. Let us know how it goes

stumpy
03-14-2011, 03:59 PM
I've been doing some reading and Gp's oral tren is no joke and I get that but call me stuborn if you will but yes I am going ahead with it.... I live in Labrador where we eat allot of wild meat such as moose, caribou, and lots of fish... My body changes very fast normally... I'm hoping for big change with decent gains! I can put on 10lbs in 2 weeks just from eating allot without any juice but its not the kind of weight i'm looking for...

ok, you're stubborn lol jk
Bro, I have serious concerns for your health.
There are things you need to know about steroids and I don't think you've read enough about them or you'd genuinly be having second thoughts about the cycle you're looking at doing so I'll word things basicaly:
Steroids, if not used correctly can be very bad or your health. They're a chemical which is not naturaly found in your body at these levels. You can seriously harm your liver & kidneys. You can drink alcohol or a long period o time but your body will soon give you information to tell you to stop in the way of vomiting, hangover, etc. You will not get this info from your body in time about taking too many or the wrong combination of steroids. It's no good looking great on the outside i you're dieing on the inside.
Ever heard of bitch tits? It's a more common name for gynecomastia. Testosterone is a male hormone, when you have too much of this in your body your body naturaly produces Estrogen (female hormone) to balance things out, with estrogen can come gynecomastia where you can start to grow small breast tissue behind you nipples. This is why we use aromatase inhibitors to help stop this.
You will not instantly notice and side efects from taking steroids and you have no prior experiance rom using steroids, you need to start with the basics (500mg test en EW) and see how your body reacts. Your irst cycle is always one o the best so you need to do it wise , well and do it safe.
Also you need to sort out you Post Cycle Therapy, when you are taking steroids you balls reduce the amount of natural testosterone you would normaly produce as your body has detected a high level of testosterone in your body. When you stop taking steroids your balls need to start producing testosterone at normal levels, this take a long time naturaly so we use PCT methods to help speed this up.

sstedje
03-17-2011, 08:31 AM
Stumpy do you need to do a pct after every cycle. On naps site. I ordered beginners cut cycle. Do I need to do a pct ager this. Thanks

stumpy
03-17-2011, 02:22 PM
This is debatable.
For a beginer I would always suggest going through PCT to help raise your natural test levels as quickly and safely as possible. There are those that don't run PCT either because they just believe they don't need it or because they run bridging cycles.
IMO run PCT after every cycle. You need to help your balls get back to size and start producing testosterone (testosterone from testis), this will help you keep a good portion of the gains you made during your cycle, without Post Cycle Therapy you run the risk of your balls taking a long time to start reproducing test again which as we know......testosterone builds muscle, if your balls aren't producing their natural level of test then you'r going to loose a larger proprtion of the muscle gains you made during your cycle.
Also, your body could still be producing levels of estrogen and without proper PCT you could be on the recieving end of gynecomastia without test to balance things out.
p.s. anyone notice my "f" key didn't work on the previous post.......I couldn't figure out what I wrote! lol

gymrat
03-17-2011, 04:49 PM
Very well said stumpy I believe this man has actually found a site that cares

sstedje
03-21-2011, 05:38 PM
Thanks again stump.